Humility

My parents were strict and I thought I would be also. That did not happen. I simply did not lie to our son regardless of what the topic was, well Santa Claus might be an exception, and I taught him by example. It worked better than my wildest expectations.

My parents, shall we say, were sometimes less than truthful. If you are not honest with your kids you are only fooling yourself if you think they are going to respect and listen to everything you say. The belt or being grounded makes kids mind and teaches them to not get caught, but does it explain what they actually did wrong? Typically kids are going to learn and do as their parents show and do. Always pretend that our kids are watching you and be honest with them and I don't think you will be disappointed.

When my son was young, 10ish, my wife and I became debt free, we owed nobody. I did not really preach to my 10 year old son what was going on and how to get there as this was above his head. Go forward 12 years and my son has had a masters degree, 1 year later he has his is a CPA license, and at 25 he too is a dept free home owner. I'm certainly not smart to teach this and the schools certainly don't stress the importance of not being debt.

The other day he told me something that totally got my attention... He pays more in income taxes than he does for all other experiences combined. I recall topping out in SS taxes at one point in my life but never ever spent less to live than what I paid the government.

------------------------------------------------ Lew Hodgett wrote:

------------------------------------------------- "Le> Well that would make a difference.... Whew! But still, I don't

-------------------------------------------------- Why is that?

Lew

Given how much in debt the government is as a base for comparison, of all the money the tax payers give the government, how much do you suppose will actually go towards an intended purpose.

Simply put, the government wastes so much of the money it collects that darn little will actually be spent on the staff. There will be exceptions but simply look at how the government runs the education K-12. Free community college will simply be the new K-16.

Private enterprise will always trump the government in production and results. Private enterprises have to run efficiently or they don't exist. This is not true with the government.

While private college professors are not all being paid near what the colleges collect for tuition I can assure you that a government paid system is going to pay those professors even less. Where do you think the smart professors are going to work?

Leon wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

Do we really need to put people through 17 years of formal education? Even

Puckdropper

I didn't here the president say he was forcing anyone to go (please pardon me for not reading all of the preceding messages of this thread). I'm hope you're not saying that you have figured out a way to filter out some of those who would like to go.

Hmmm, I've read that a few time and do not understand.. Could you give an example?

Key point. My junior HS taught woodworking, had a metal shop where we would do tin work, lathe work and aluminum casting, small engine shop, building trades, etc. HS had the auto shop stuff, drafting, and electronics lab plus many other 'trade' type classes. These are no more....

-BR

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Well I did not listen to him either but the notion of making yet another thing free, for the taxpayers to pay for, will with a certainty end up as unsuccessful as most any thing else the government participates in.

As far as forcing students to go I have a couple of thoughts. A. There are millions of HS drop outs so the government does not do a good job at keeping kids in school either. The number of students that actually attend does not affect the cost to educate them. The cost is the same whether there are 15 or 30 students in any particular class. B. There is a vast number of students that pay for their higher education and should not be in college. When college students end up not going into the field in which they studied, what good is that $60,000 of debt which will take 30 years to pay off with a job paying $20,000 a year? C. Countless families will continue to support and let their kids live at home as long as they are in school. This turns into 4 more years of HS quality education that the dead beat kid will attend so that he does not have to gout and support himself.

Again I will say that a free education sounds good but in reality you often get what you pay for.

I also saw a requirement for 50% attendance.

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This is true, there is the over qualification tag that can hold an over educated person back. It would be better if the education after HS focused on physical trade skills to those that are going to actually do that for a living. Simply put, college is not for every body and if every one is offered a free college education you are going to see "sanitation engineers" riding on the back of the garbage truck collecting your trash every week.

Over qualified. During periods of economic down turns, like the one that we are starting to recover from, there are lay offs and college kids graduating. They are all hunting for jobs. Typically when there are cut backs/lay offs, those that are the least important to the company are let go. Those that immediately find jobs are not over qualified. Those that can't find a job, even when people are being hired, are over qualified for the jobs they are seeking.

And if you read between the lines, over qualified can also be defined as educated well beyond ones intelligence level. If you don't know how to apply and sell yourself with what you have been taught you are over qualified for the job you are turned down for.

In addition an overqualified person can be a risk. He is desperate to find a job to support his financial needs and in a tight market will jump at anything to have income. If the economy improves or a job that suites his qualifications better comes up, he is gone. A workforce is going to be more stable when it's qualifications match it's pay level.

OMG! You only need to attend half of your classes....

Here is what the government is doing, it is finding something for idle hands to do for the next 4 years when they can't find jobs.

Leon wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

DING DING DING! Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner.

Thank you Doug! :~)

Oh, oh ... now you'll really get him wound up.

(Disclaimer: I agree with everything Leon as stated thus far)

We have that situation now. I don't think it would get any worse by educating people more, given a proper education. By proper, I mean something usable. I have a PhD in 4th century Greek sculpture and can't find a job in my field.

My point is, having the opportunity for an education does not lead to the problem it is what you do with it. Instead of Greek scupture, go into the medical field where there is a steady demand, or maybe engineering, or even learn a trade.

There are some professional students that will stay in school as long as mom and day foot the bill. They have no direction and will be overqualified if they ever do get kicked out of the house.

The higher education system needs serious overhaul. Tuition is going up much faster than the cost of living and inflation rates The tuition at UCONN is up 6% and the president got a 20% raise. Yeah, that makes sense. Tough getting by on only $750,000 a year.

I think we agree. Better educated is not the problem but can compound the problem.

And while, thank goodness, we still have people in this country that can be trained or educated to do most anything....the vast majority is not going to do well with that process.

Agreed. But giving away an education seems, to me, to be the wrong road to an overhaul.

Ed Pawlowski wrote in news:c-KdnZgJJLl0dVHJnZ2dnUU7- snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

It seems I didn't write it well enough to get my point across. I'll rewrite it:

After a point, additional schooling just wastes a person's time.

For the type that work with their hands, it's sometimes better to get out of the classroom and in to the shop where they can make mistakes and actually engage in learning.

Puckdropper

As in, experience is what you get by working and making mistakes because you don't have the experience

Think "book smart."

It's like a lawyer after passing the bar exam. Long on the tools to do the job but no experience doing the job.

The doctor who got his degree yesterday is NOT going to be my doctor. Give him a year or two in residency - hopefully in a busy urban ER or in his/her clinical specialty and you've got something.

I can't think of a profession or career where OJT doesn't make all the difference in the finished product.

If you speak frankly (or rather if they will speak frankly with you) most college professors will acknowledge that the college degree today is not much more than the high school diploma of decades ago.

An extra two years of schooling in community college? Sure, why not. Two additional years of child care. Local community college established (via a very nice person) a fund that would cover ALL tuition for two years at the local community college. The only criteria was graduation from a local high school (Not GED or alternative day care ) with a, I think, "C" average.

Nice huh? Help them out, get them working, get away from the sense of entitlement?

You should have heard the bitching and moaning by a number of ingrates! "Why the hell should I have to pay for my books and activity fees, etc.?"