Fluorescent Lighting for Shop/Garage

Probably all of the regular readers hear are as familiar as they care to be with my "shop lighting" plans. So I won't belabor them again. Earlier, I was advised here to seek out "5000K" T8 bulbs. Reviewing my notes, I saw I wrote that down a few times! : )

Today I headed out into to cruel, understocked world, to pick up a few items to begin my lighting experiments. Prices were noticeably better at the BORGs than online. Along with a few fixtures I came home with the bulbs:

Sylvania ("Spectre Maximal"), T8, 32w, 5000K, 1800 Lumens, CRI-90.

When I got home I noticed that Phillips has a bulb: T8, 32w, 5000K, 2850 Lumens, CRI-85. I believe Home Depot had those in boxes of 25 (only), which is why I passed them up while I was there.

I came home with a few of the first sort from Menards. It's the difference in "Lumens output" which has me concerned:

In Sylvania's catalog, their bulbs above (1800 Lumens output) were suggested for "display, signage and backlighting". This is leading me to believe that they may be inappropriate. ***Agree???*** Please advise me whether I should return what I have and get a box of the Phillips bulbs. Any other comments which will further my education about this are of course welcome too!

BTW, In Sylvania's cataglog, it says that 850 Lumens ~ 60 Watt incandescent bulb. I'm not sure if multiples of this relation are meaningful (probably not). BTW2, I did notice that the Lumens Output listed is a "nominal measurement" (ha) --one may be doing well to actually get 80% of it.

I finally got a big binder last night to hold my plans and designs in. That's got to be better than the approach I was using. ;)

For those of you who remember my broken dishwasher: It washed and washed at 100 decibels or more for the past few months (I was adhering to the suggested "if it's not *really* broke, then don't fix it" principle). About a week ago it tripped the GFCI switch it was on leaving my poor wife to bail the dishwasher out by hand. I noticed a

10% sale at Lowes last week, and got an additional 5% for getting a Lowes CC, so I bit the bullet. I pondered how many light fixtures and wire you can get for the price of a new dishwasher, but as my wife seem to take pride in pointing out..they don't wash dishes! ; )

Sorry if I've distracted you, my main concern is about those 2 categories of 5000K, T8 bulbs.

Thank you, Bill

Reply to
Bill
Loading thread data ...

Go for lumens. The color temperature may be "pleasing" (whiter, etc) but the lumens is a measure of the light output. The more the better in a shop environment.

Max

Reply to
Max

Probably all of the regular readers hear are as familiar as they care to be with my "shop lighting" plans. So I won't belabor them again. Earlier, I was advised here to seek out "5000K" T8 bulbs. Reviewing my notes, I saw I wrote that down a few times! : )

Today I headed out into to cruel, understocked world, to pick up a few items to begin my lighting experiments. Prices were noticeably better at the BORGs than online. Along with a few fixtures I came home with the bulbs:

Sylvania ("Spectre Maximal"), T8, 32w, 5000K, 1800 Lumens, CRI-90.

When I got home I noticed that Phillips has a bulb: T8, 32w, 5000K, 2850 Lumens, CRI-85. I believe Home Depot had those in boxes of 25 (only), which is why I passed them up while I was there.

I came home with a few of the first sort from Menards. It's the difference in "Lumens output" which has me concerned:

In Sylvania's catalog, their bulbs above (1800 Lumens output) were suggested for "display, signage and backlighting". This is leading me to believe that they may be inappropriate. ***Agree???*** Please advise me whether I should return what I have and get a box of the Phillips bulbs. Any other comments which will further my education about this are of course welcome too!

BTW, In Sylvania's cataglog, it says that 850 Lumens ~ 60 Watt incandescent bulb. I'm not sure if multiples of this relation are meaningful (probably not). BTW2, I did notice that the Lumens Output listed is a "nominal measurement" (ha) --one may be doing well to actually get 80% of it.

I finally got a big binder last night to hold my plans and designs in. That's got to be better than the approach I was using. ;)

For those of you who remember my broken dishwasher: It washed and washed at 100 decibels or more for the past few months (I was adhering to the suggested "if it's not *really* broke, then don't fix it" principle). About a week ago it tripped the GFCI switch it was on leaving my poor wife to bail the dishwasher out by hand. I noticed a

10% sale at Lowes last week, and got an additional 5% for getting a Lowes CC, so I bit the bullet. I pondered how many light fixtures and wire you can get for the price of a new dishwasher, but as my wife seem to take pride in pointing out..they don't wash dishes! ; )

Sorry if I've distracted you, my main concern is about those 2 categories of 5000K, T8 bulbs.

Thank you, Bill

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FYI, I am in a new house with a 3 car garage. For a short period I had 2,

60 watt incandescent bulbs for lighting with light beige walls. I put in a door opener that uses 2, 100 watt CF bulbs and I replaced the 2 60 watt bulbs with the same. So thee I had 400 watts of lighting. What a difference.

Now I have added 4, 8' fixtures that hold 4, T8 bulbs each, 16 total 4' bulbs. These are Phillips Daylight Deluxe 2700 lumen bulbs. Almost brighter than day light in there now. If fact if the garage door is open during the day it covers 4 of the bulbs and it is just not quite as bright.

You want at least the 2700 lumen bulbs! BTY I painted the walls white with a satin sheen and those 4, 100 watt CFR bulbs still light up but look dim by comparison.

Reply to
Leon

"Bill" wrote in Sylvania ("Spectre Maximal"), T8, 32w, 5000K, 1800 Lumens, CRI-90.

When I got home I noticed that Phillips has a bulb: T8, 32w, 5000K, 2850 Lumens, CRI-85. I believe Home Depot had those in boxes of 25 (only), which is why I passed them up while I was there.

I came home with a few of the first sort from Menards. It's the difference in "Lumens output" which has me concerned:

In Sylvania's catalog, their bulbs above (1800 Lumens output) were suggested for "display, signage and backlighting". This is leading me to believe that they may be inappropriate. ***Agree???*** Please advise me whether I should return what I have and get a box of the Phillips bulbs. Any other comments which will further my education about this are of course welcome too!

Reply to
Morgans

Looking at their web site, the Sylvanias you have seem to be some kind of special purpose bulb, however I couldn't tell much more--their web site is a model of worthlessness. They do have others that have illumination levels more in line with the Phillips. I'd take them back.

Reply to
J. Clarke

Reply to
J. Clarke

Yes, but not inventoried at Home Depot or Menards.

Yep! Will do!

Thanks, Bill

Reply to
Bill

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you, and everyone else who offered suggestions. Your comments on your experience that you shared above are definitely helpful.

My "maximal plan" would have 22 T8 bulbs (11 4' fixtures), in my 20' by

25' space, on 3 switches. One switch would have just two fixtures over my workbench/table (I think of that as "mood lighting", sort of comparable to light over a pool table) and the other 9 would be divided among the other 2 switches. I will do some actual experiments in the immediate future to help me decide whether this many bulbs produces more light than I want or not.

The way I am planning to do the wiring (EMT/THHN) offers considerable latitude in reassigning lights to switches. For my 3 hot wires A, B, C I'll have an A-B row, and two B-C rows. Thus I'll be running just 4 wires, 2 hots, White and Ground along each of my three rows of fixtures. My uncle explained to me why he didn't think I should use the metal conduit as a ground (even though it may be allowable).

Bill

Reply to
Bill

I have trouble believing that the higher-lumen bulbs have a worse CRI. And the CRI differing that much for the same 5000k rating is odd.

I'd opt for the brighter bulbs, Bill. And I'd get the box of 25. They're invariably -considerably- less expensive that way, like a buck or two cheaper each.

Especially after they get wood dust all over 'em. Efficiency report:

formatting link
I finally got a big binder last night to hold my plans and designs in.

A.R. Bill Rides Again!

I suppose you then said "Well get in there and do them, woman. I'm going to the Borg to buy lamps & fixtures."

-- Woe be to him that reads but one book. -- George Herbert

Reply to
Larry Jaques

You write that as if attention to detail is a bad thing...

Naw..I'm a little more discreet about my shopping than that. But if conversation should turn in that direction, I'll be ready with: "That dang dishwasher cost ne'r twice as much as all of my light fixtures combined!" (there's no need to confuse matters with the box of bulbs or the spools of wire...) ;)

By the way, what Mike M. termed the "DP Baseboard of my dreams" this past winter may finally be constructed in the next few days. The weather and a few other matters held me off-track until now. I might start sooner, but I've got to go bulb shopping again tomorrow... I hope someone here is amused by my humble attempts at humor... The "Mrs." doesn't think I have a good sense of humor...beyond that, opinions vary widely... lol ; )

Bill

BTW, here's a good example of a "bad joke" I read the other day:

These two muffins were in the oven. One muffin said, "Gosh, it's hot in here!" The other muffin went "Eeeek!!!, A talking muffin!"

Dont' tell anyone you heard it from me--I'll deny it.

Reply to
Bill

IMHO I think a big factor in deciding between 3000k (warm) and 5000k (cool) or even 6500k (daylight) bulbs is the following...

Where will the stuff you're making be seen?

If you're making indoor furniture, stick with warm bulbs, because most people use warm bulbs in their houses.

If you're making outdoor stuff, go with cool or daylight bulbs.

For office furniture, stick with warm-cool (flourescent). Etc.

The idea is, you'll be seeing the finish in your shop, the same color as the customer will be seeing it when they bring it home.

Reply to
DJ Delorie

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you, and everyone else who offered suggestions. Your comments on your experience that you shared above are definitely helpful.

My "maximal plan" would have 22 T8 bulbs (11 4' fixtures), in my 20' by

25' space, on 3 switches. One switch would have just two fixtures over my workbench/table (I think of that as "mood lighting", sort of comparable to light over a pool table) and the other 9 would be divided among the other 2 switches. I will do some actual experiments in the immediate future to help me decide whether this many bulbs produces more light than I want or not.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

32 watts per bulb would = 704 watts. I have 712 counting the 2, CF bulbs in the regular sockets. The switch for your work bench is probably a good idea but it would be nothing for a single switch to handle the rest of the lighting, unless you simply want to not light up the whole area.

The way I am planning to do the wiring (EMT/THHN) offers considerable latitude in reassigning lights to switches. For my 3 hot wires A, B, C I'll have an A-B row, and two B-C rows. Thus I'll be running just 4 wires, 2 hots, White and Ground along each of my three rows of fixtures. My uncle explained to me why he didn't think I should use the metal conduit as a ground (even though it may be allowable).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I simply tied into the existing light boxes in the attic, they had extra terminals for that purpose.

Reply to
Leon

"Bill" wrote in Sylvania ("Spectre Maximal"), T8, 32w, 5000K, 1800 Lumens, CRI-90.

When I got home I noticed that Phillips has a bulb: T8, 32w, 5000K, 2850 Lumens, CRI-85. I believe Home Depot had those in boxes of 25 (only), which is why I passed them up while I was there.

I came home with a few of the first sort from Menards. It's the difference in "Lumens output" which has me concerned:

In Sylvania's catalog, their bulbs above (1800 Lumens output) were suggested for "display, signage and backlighting". This is leading me to believe that they may be inappropriate. ***Agree???*** Please advise me whether I should return what I have and get a box of the Phillips bulbs. Any other comments which will further my education about this are of course welcome too!

Reply to
Leon

IMHO I think a big factor in deciding between 3000k (warm) and 5000k (cool) or even 6500k (daylight) bulbs is the following...

Where will the stuff you're making be seen?

If you're making indoor furniture, stick with warm bulbs, because most people use warm bulbs in their houses.

If you're making outdoor stuff, go with cool or daylight bulbs.

For office furniture, stick with warm-cool (flourescent). Etc.

The idea is, you'll be seeing the finish in your shop, the same color as the customer will be seeing it when they bring it home.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Good thoughts BUT, IMHO you want bright, day light bright. You will not always be putting a finish on a project. You need better light for working. Warm indoor lighting is kinda dim by comparison. If color matters you should typically buy at a store that ofders the proper lighting for selecting the color.

Reply to
Leon

Yeah, but take it with a grain of salt. It was, you see, a gov't pub.

Nah, not bad. Just humorous to others.

Smart man.

Don't be surprised if you get as much flak as I did with my bow saur project in the last century. Har!

You have...?, er, never mind.

I don't doubt that.

-- Woe be to him that reads but one book. -- George Herbert

Reply to
Larry Jaques

Learn the difference between "Lumens" and "Lux" and your understanding of these matters will likely be better.

-------------- "Leon" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com... In Sylvania's catalog, their bulbs above (1800 Lumens output) were suggested for "display, signage and backlighting". This is leading me to believe that they may be inappropriate. ***Agree???*** Please advise me whether I should return what I have and get a box of the Phillips bulbs. Any other comments which will further my education about this are of course welcome too!

Reply to
Josepi

Reply to
Larry Jaques

I really like the 6500 K fluorescent tubes for working, whether shop or kitchen. I do **NOT** like the 6500K CFL bulbs though. I find them harsh and too cold for anything. The long tubes are better suited anywhere in that temp colour but not the CFLs???

ON a side note We have many pot lights in home and many have 6500K CFLs in them. The light is a nice colour but we constantly come home at nights to find them on around the house. If you have any daylight coming in windows you don't notice when the bulbs are on upon leaving. The colour matched the window light so well it isn't noticed until dark outside.

The 5000K CFLs look about the same except appear to have a reddish tinge to them and a little less briliiance.

The 2700K - 3000K are needed for TV watching and bedroom usage. The 2700K are a bit too yellowish for me and it feels too dark with them. More "wattage" is required.

IMHO I think a big factor in deciding between 3000k (warm) and 5000k (cool) or even 6500k (daylight) bulbs is the following...

Where will the stuff you're making be seen?

If you're making indoor furniture, stick with warm bulbs, because most people use warm bulbs in their houses.

If you're making outdoor stuff, go with cool or daylight bulbs.

For office furniture, stick with warm-cool (flourescent). Etc.

The idea is, you'll be seeing the finish in your shop, the same color as the customer will be seeing it when they bring it home.

Reply to
Josepi

Let's see, 22 x 2,700 lumens = 59,400 lumens. That's the equivalent of almost SEVENTY ONE 60W bulbs. Now do you see why that's absolute overkill to the Nth degree? I still think that you'd have plenty of light with 4 fixtures in addition to the two which are already up there, and adding spot illumination where necessary.

Power used by 11 fixtures (bulbs + ballasts) would be about a horsepower and a half, 1100W all the time you're in the shop. Even fluor can get expensive to run if there's too much of it.

You'll need an arc welding helmet to walk in that Lew-Approved(tmLJ) room. Time for cataract surgery so you can see again, guys.

Not only is it illegal in most places, it's a safety hazard. If you lost your neutral (white wire), you'd have current (plus the resultant resistances) in iffy connections, which could be a fire hazard.

-- Woe be to him that reads but one book. -- George Herbert

Reply to
Larry Jaques

Facts & Opinion

There are two bad lighting conditions in any workspace: under lighted and over lighted; one is as bad as the other IME.

The Kelvin rating of the bulbs is relatively unimportant as all fluorescent bulbs are deficient in red; 5000K is fine.

For general illumination in a shop you want about 70 footcandles per ft.sq.; for task lighting, around 100-150.

Lumens and footcandles are measuring two different things; however, for your purpose, you can consider them to be 1:1.

The intensity of light varies inversely to the square of the distance. __________________

Procedure

  1. Add up the total potential lumens from all bulbs

  1. Divide the total by the area of your shop. You now have the maximum light AT ONE FOOT FROM THE BULBS

  2. Apply the inverse square law to determine light at work surface height. a. at two feet from bulb, light will be 1/2...at 4', 1/4...etc.
Reply to
dadiOH

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.