End-grain planing

[Jay Pique]

How can you tell when a woodworker is lying?

When he claims he can cleanly plane the end grain of maple.

It's simply not possible.

JP

[patriarch]

Jay Pique wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Having a rough afternoon, Jay?

There's lots of maple. And lots of handplanes.

How clean do you want it? How large an end piece?

Patriarch

[bridger]

can't count the number of times I've had hardware store sales drones tell me "there aint no such thing" when I ask for some piece of hardware that I have a sample of.

what they mean, of course is that they don't carry them (or have never heard of them...)

JP, you need to learn to sharpen.

[Leon]

I guess you are trolling here Jay. Why else bring up the argument? BTY, I don't subscribe to it but I think you may need to sharpen your plane if you can't do this.

[Doug Miller]

Not possible _for_you_ is not the same as not possible. If you're having trouble with this, you need to sharpen your plane iron, and possibly work on your technique as well. I don't have difficulty with this.

-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com You must use your REAL email address to get a response.

[RonB]

I, admittedly, am too much of a "Normite" -- I believe in machines. However, I would think it would be very possible with a sharp tool and some finesse. I have done a very nice job of end-planing even thick Oak using a jointer. Takes a very small depth setting and a light touch.

[Frank McVey]

A sharp, finely-set, low-angle block plane will sort it.

Cheers

Frank

[Jay Pique]

Indeed. Things were going oh so nicely - doors were open on the shop, a nice breeze blowing, finish flowing perfectly, low dust levels, and a new quarter sawn maple kitchen was just humming along. Then I started to fit and clean up some doors. Ugh.

I like the idea of using a plane to clean up end grain, but I'm just not so sure of the technique. Do I need to get a miter plane from Lie Nielsen and rig up a complex shooting board? The pretty stile edges I can get with a plane make me want to carry that process to the rails. If I ScarySharp to 1500 grit, will that be enough? Maybe I'd better get ahold of some of those shapton stones that I just read were so well elutriated!

I want more handplanes. And more sharp blades. And more high quality power tools. What are you called when you just want the best for the job at hand? Neandermite? Normander?

I want it "clean", as in "no sanding". I understand that a shooting board may be necessary to avoid tearout if I go all the way across the bottom (or top) of a cope & stick cabinet door, but I'd prefer to just end the cut midway across the rail and then attack it from the other side. Then maybe break the edge with a quick swipe of 150. The stiles are 3" wide.

Are you a Father, or just a father?

JP

****************************** Just a son.

[Jay Pique]

Yep. That I do. I'm trying though. I think my shoddy backsharpening technique on plane irons is causing more trouble than it's (currently) worth!

JP

**************************** Dullard?

[Jay Pique]

Just a *llittle*. It's all in the presentation. Especially in heavily fished waters....

Patriarch hit the nail on the head - just a little frustrated.

Yep - and work on my technique as well. Or maybe I should just figure out how to get cleaner trimming cuts out of bossman. Then I would have less to worry about cleaning up.

JP

[Jay Pique]

Rub it in why dontcha! What plane and iron do you use, and to what grit/grade do you sharpen?

Thanks - JP

[Jay Pique]

Wouldn't I be better off with a bevel down plane carrying a bit more mass?

JP

[patriarch]

Jay Pique wrote in news: [e-mail]:

It can't stay perfect forever. Reality steps in. Unfortunately.

Human. And a woodworker.

Others are better qualified to instruct on technique. I am but a relative beginner to the ways of handplanes at the glass-smooth edge. And I just bought a drum sander. I guess that makes me a heretic, in some circles.

I am the father of four fine sons, and one beautiful grandson, 14 months old. In my father's generation, he was the only one of his brothers to have a son, me, and so the family name continues through my family only. 'Patriarch' was the new user name I put on one of my computers some years ago, when I needed to keep some things seperate.

I am active in my church, (not Catholic), but this is not the venue for a religious discussion, unless you count the feeling of finally planing maple end grain absolutely, perfectly mirror smooth.

Then it's time to quit for the day, with a smile. Even if it is only 11 am.

Have another go at it tomorrow. Sometimes it gets better.

Patriarch

[bridger]

not necessarily. for the edges of doors a block plane can be a lot easier to control. if you're setting up a shooting board and have a low angle smoother or something it could be a different matter...

[J. Clarke]

Block planes are designed for the purpose. That "more mass" may be part of your problem--lets you get up enough inertia to do a cut with a less than perfect blade but when you get to the edge that same inertia causes breakout. With any planing job you want the sharpness of the blade to do the work, not the inertia of the plane, but end grain is exceptionally unforgiving in this regard.

As to "how sharp", if it's not cutting satisfactorily then it's not sharp enough.

[George]

[Doug Miller]

Lee Valley low-angle block plane with the stock iron. I sharpen on a Tormek water wheel.

-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com You must use your REAL email address to get a response.

[Conan the Librarian]

You've gotten lots of good advice on this already, but I'll sum up my approach. The iron has to be extremely sharp. I finish mine on a sheet of the 0.5 micron microfinishing film. Depending on the size of the piece I'm working on, I use either a low-angle block or a low-angle smoother. Either way, I set the iron for a very light cut and close the mouth up pretty tight.

So I don't have to worry about chipout at the end of the stroke, I mark the cut and take a block plane to put a bit of a bevel down to the point where I want the cut to end. (I do this all around the end of the board.) This has the added advantage of giving me an extra visual reference point. (I.e., when the bevel is gone, I should be right there.)

I clamp the board end-up in my leg vise (keeping it as low in the jaws as possible so it doesn't flex or wobble) and skew the plane slightly as I go. Skewing helps two ways: It gives you a slicing cut and it helps balance the plane better than approaching it from straight-on.

Finally, even on endgrain you need to go with the grain. Do a test cut to find which direction leaves a better surface. It is usually very noticeable.

Do all of these things, and you'll soon find yourself making little endgrain curlies that crumble when you try to pick them up.

BTW, in my experience, it's harder to plane endgrain *pine* than it is maple or other harder woods.

Chuck Vance

[Jay Pique]

I keep seeing and hearing about those Tormeks. Would you recommend that as a sharpening system for a commercial shop? My guess is that I'll want to have a decent set up for chisels, plane blades and turning tools, but other blades and bits will be sent out.

JP

[patrick conroy]

Borrowing from Zagat's: $$$$$. But then you brought up the Panel Saw thang' didntcha?