Fixed spacing is not absolutely a bad thing when it comes to consistent results. Swingman has lately been having problems with the fingers slipping and getting inconsistent fit results. I use the Leigh jig also however have not yet seen any problems. IMHO an adjustable finger jig with something more than a friction fit to hold the fingers would be a plus, thinking the Akeda, or something like the Akeda.
On 2/27/2011 9:57 AM, Leon wrote: ...
Indeed, I've heard that complaint before on the Leigh (maybe a conversation here w/ Swingman, who knows/remembers?).
I'm limited in this application to pre-ordained drawer heights and they don't fit the jig spacing well for most if not all so it's either get something else ready built or build jigs specifically for the runs (or, of course, cut them by hand which ain't bad except for the numbers :( :) ).
I'd kinda' forgotten the Akeda--seems like maybe PC has introduced something not too long ago, as well I think???
I've been on the barn and other big stuff so long I've not done anything smallish scale in number of years now...this has been pushed off for almost 10 yrs now...before spring planting season I'm determined to get at least going on it ('course, I've said that before, too! :) ).
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My old Leigh D4 has been an excellent small shop production tool, but it has been used to build more drawers and cabinets than many will ever have to face, and the inherent problems with the design have become magnified in the both the hard usage, and the process.
charlieb, here on the wRec has an excellent treatise on his website on the inherent design problems with the various types of dovetail jigs that will be well worth your time to DAGS)
Bottom line is that I would have already bought the Akeda (based in no small part on charlieb's review) had it been available on this last job, but its production/availability seems to be sporadic last time I checked and none were to be had at any price.
Hope that has changed, or will change, because it looks like the way to go for the current "state of the art" of adjustable spacing dovetail jigs.
All things being equal concerning the latest from PC, think Leig Jig, destroyer...... PC DT jig, air crafter carrier, it is huge, almost the same width of a sheet of plywood, more than 13 inches tall and 18" front to back and 66 lbs.
The show stopper for fixed dovetail jigs is that you do usually want dovetails to show, which usually means under mount drawer slides.
These slides mandate the precise placing of the drawer bottoms dado, meaning you must have the ability to able to space the dovetails where this dado is invisible in the sides after assembly.
It is also another reason why jigs, like the PC, that allow you to cut both sides of a half blind dovetail at the same time, also fail ... the spacing must be fixed in that configuration, IIRC, making the above impossible/unlikely.
My solution, some 25+ years ago was, in one word, Metabox.
Of course, there aren't any in my house.....
IMNSHO, I prefer the look of those domino drawers over the ol' dovetails. By quite a margin.
Do have a mutilator, eerr Multi-Router to fall back on, but the set up and extra cost of the inserts is not cost effective enough for my liking.
Yeah ... I like them myself. If this particular client had seen them first, Leon could have made all the damn drawers (close to 50 and rising at last count), which would have suited me just fine.
Besides, his new shop needed the tune-up ... and it raised the tone of the place to a high level for future projects. :)
Not sure my stomach could'a stomached 50 if'n you know what I mean. ;~) Darn twisty wood.
Whew!! You musta gotten all the branch wood. :)
Them there trees that grow on the side of a hill.
On 2/27/2011 11:58 AM, Swingman wrote: ...
It appears from another forum google found that as of a couple weeks ago the current owner of the the Akeda rights is hoping he might have production starting again by fall...all in all, the info I could find makes it look kinda' iffy at best that it will happen at all would be my guess.
That won't help much now, unfortunately.
For anything production, certainly so...I don't have to worry about making a profit here, but realistically on the time to ever get done w/ what _does_ have to get done for profit farming means it ain't feasible, here, either.
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One more side question...
I had in mind in the retrofit here to use undermount slides as well until I realized the same problem of they simply require to much lost space for the space available and number of drawers that are too few already (and there's not an option to make the kitchen larger here).
So, I've been looking for an alternate better than the corner-mounted rollers and center track that Dad used that can still get fit in (I built the cabinets and drawer boxes for folks some 30 year ago in a quick trip home and left the door-hanging, drawer mounting and finishing to him after went back home). Now they're getting old and I'm remaking doors and drawer fronts and going to refinish the faces.
The drawer boxes are 7/16" oak w/ 1/4" bottoms an approximate 3/8" space from bottom of bottom to bottom of side. The pretty well fit the opening on sides. Not sure, may not have much choice other than fit center tracks/rails w/ a UHMW glide.
Have you run across anything that might be a suitable selection? As noted, I hate to think of making the drawers themselves any smaller than they already are; I was planning on cutting off the existing fronts and cut the tails in place and go inset instead of overlay for both drawer fronts and doors.
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Sorry ... I've been making sure that this post remained as "unread" until I had time to reply.
I agree with Leon. Having built hundreds of drawers that were spec'ed for under mount hardware, I've been unable to find a centermount solution that would work in the kind of drawers you would want to use in a kitchen.
I have used single, centermount underdrawer slides for smaller drawers in desks and chests, but still ending up being forced to support the drawer sides with some type of support, like UHMW strips. These would not be practical in a kitchen, IMO
I've also seen another practice that works, but that I don't necessarily buy into, and that is using 3/4 extension side mount slides, mounted horizontally under the drawers instead of on the sides.
As long as you use a heavy duty slide that far exceeds the expected drawer load you may get away with it. But, the slide mechanism itself is not designed for a load in that direction and I'm of the opinion that they won't last long when used in such a contraindicated manner.
As you already know, undermount drawer slides are very picky about drawer dimensions and the drawers must be built within a narrow range of the specified dimensions to work at all.
I've never seen a case where an existing drawer could be retrofitted to accept today's undermount slides ... but you could always get lucky, and, IMO, that's what it would take.
Basically ... what Leon said.
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OK, thanks for the input...I hear ya'... :)
I've done the side-mount turned flat underneath here for the printer slideout tray on the office desk I built when moved back and still had leftover consulting contracts to clean up for first few years from the previous life. As noted, they don't have the lateral strength to support the weight on their own so wouldn't consider that for a repetitive application like the kitchen. But, it works nicely for the space-saving app w/ the printer that only has to come out occasionally and has an underneath support that sits on the floor to support the printer when need it out to, say, scan larger document.
As noted in the other thread, I think I'll try a couple of the KV1129's; it turns out that the underneath drawer dimension does just happen to be their spec so looks like from that standpoint I did turn lucky, maybe. If not, I'll deal w/ the situation on down the road as I can live w/ the existing if have to for a while yet; I do want to finish the doors and get them hung before spring planting has to begin 'cause it cannot in any circumstances be put off when the day comes it's warm enough and we have moisture--everything else will have to wait at that point and harvest isn't far behind that and so chances are good nothing else will get done 'til next winter once farm season actually arrives...
Thanks for the input; just thought since you/Leon in particular here are active and it's been 30 yr now since were doing the retro houses in Lynchburg there might be something that's the cat's meow was unaware of as an alternative solution.
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