Dog holes need to be 2º?

[AAvK]

I just bought both Veritas striking knife and saddle square for marking out the dog holes on my top maple, then I remembered the 2º/88º thing. The saddle square is "square", no 2º/88º slant to it.

"Goofy me" for that!

I suppose I'll use the T-bevel set from a protractor.

Is there a better idea?

Or Should I get a local machinist to create the 2º/88º on the saddle square? (naw naw naw lol)

Do dog holes *have to* be 2º/88º off?

Do they "lean" towards the end vise? (obviously yes)

If so, what about the dog holes for the front vise, is that a compromise?

I have seen pictures of benches with two rows of holes... how does compromise work exactly? 2º/88º in the two directions? Impossible at my level, and I know it.

Or should there be a separate set of holes just for the front vise? I havn't seen or heard of that before... and it would be a "funky" and possibly untraditional answer.

TIA,

[Edwin Pawlowski]

2 degrees is built in. Get a Wonder Pup too.

[Stephen M]

I have their marking knife. I like it. I to have the dove tail saddle squares...I find them nearly useless; when used with a knife the knife will bite into the relatively soft aluminum. They work fine with a pencil, but the suck if you use a knife.

LV sliding bevel gauges are truely a better mousetrap. Highly recommended.

That might be hand if you were in the bench-building business. Otherwise, that's a bit silly.

Probably not, but I figure that what works well for a traditional bench has been field-tested by craftsmen who did this stuff ..... well much more than I ever will, is the best place to start.

Mine both lean towards one another, to draw the workpiece down onto the bench.

Maybe take the wonderpup approach and bevel the (side) face of the dog rather than orient the entire dog.

That's certainly not unprecidented for round-hole benches. That said, I do not have dog holes in my front vise and I don't miss them. If I want to hold something flat on the top of the bench, I will just go to the end vise, or use a holdfast.

-Steve

[AAvK]

Thanks Eddy, but I bought lignum vitae pen blanks dude, and plan to do 3/4" square holes. Those look really good though, I must admit, and it would be easier.

[AAvK]

Yeah, the A2 steel blade that is nicely finished, and a real rosewood handle for that cost, decent!

That I never thought of, thanks now I won't ruin mine, I'll just use a pencil with it. Veritas needs to make steel ones.

I have a Stanley 6" #18 of old... I tried using a small steel protractor to set it, seemed a little futile but I can get it there. I'll have to remove the blade and re-insert as flipped so the wider side of the body rests on the wood when cutting.

The leans are opposing?

Now that sounds a shot viable. LV pen blanks are always on eBay cheap enough. But it is a compromise on an entire design using straight dog holes, and possibly weakening the dog itself.

So a separate set of round holes maybe, the dogs turn in either direction. My front vise has a sliding dog, so will the end vise cheeks, as holes for dogs or round pups.

Thanks for the help!

[CW]

Mine are strait and I wouldn't have it any other way. If you tilt them, at some point the will be in the wrong direction. If you simply must have an angle, angle the dogs, not the holes.

[CW]

3/4" square holes.

[Stephen M]

Yes and no. What you say makes alot of sense *if* you have dogs side by side on your vise *and* you clamp non-square stuff.

If you use a sing dog in an end-vise and a single dog in the main table (the most common arangement) it only makes sence to have the contact faces of the dogs parallel. I recently had to hold down an s-curve table leg between dogs. Both ends of the leg were "pointy" with respect to the main axis of the leg. I cut a couple of small blocks with a notch to fit between the dog and the leg at each end. This worked like a charm. 2 dogs, weird angles, a pivoting dog would not have helped. I can post a pic if necessary.

When I built my bench 3 years ago I thought that I would end up making a few one-off dogs for the odd clamping angle. I have yet to do so. That said, I do litttle non-square work. YMMV.

If you have a veritas twin-screw vise, I could envision alot more scenarios for pivoting dogs. Even then, I might be tempted to use oversize wood dogs, and have a 1/2" hole drilled in the top to accept a pivoting "puppy".

-Steve

[Stephen M]

I find them nearly useless; when used with a knife the knife will

Yup.

recommended.

The choice of angle is not crtical, it jut needs to be consistant. To set the angle you an just do a little trig to calculate the difference from square Tan (2) = Differnce/6" (tangent = opposite/adjacent)

If you have to disassemble to flip you bevel gauge reconsider that LV upgrade.

Yes. I'm pretty sure that this stuff is pretty well covered in Landis' "the workbench book" If you don't have it run, don't walk to get it.

Would you consider dumping the LV idea and going with larger dog? My dog holes are 1" x 1.25". This offers a little more bearing surface to both the Dog/workpiece and dog/bench. this would reduce the possibility of the bench, dog or workpiece being compressed (dented) when too much pressure is applied by the vise. If your workpiece is pine, that's not a whole lot.

This rules out the use of commercial brass dogs. I like my wood dogs just fine.

I lost you there. What do you mean by a sliding dog?

[AAvK]

That is clear, let's assume the purpose of the tilted hole is about making the top of any dog up and over the top of any work piece, when many tops of dogs will be placed below work pieces, ay? So it would be worthwhile if the dog were 1" square rather than 3/4" square to maintain it's strength with a 2º cut- away slanted into the top of it's body... but then the hole is then too big for the bench top, I should think... that's kind of big. What do you think, and how well do yours work out? What size square are they?

[AAvK]

I have both books actually. Landis' book is something of a museum.

Can use a wide shim too...already bought the pen blanks.

You know, like a record vise, the outer jaw has a steel dog that slides up and down. It was made by "American Scale Co. KC MS No. 204" 7x4 jaws and quick action.

28 pounds of iron.