Dayton 8-1/8 jointer - bed rusty - knives chipped

[Tom Red]

I bought a Dayton 6 and 1/8" Jointer (model 4TJ86 or maybe that's the cabin et-- maybe it's 4TJ98) at a rummage sale. When we figured out how to move t he fence back a little further (e.g. for wider stock) I discovered the ther e was a gouge in all three knives-- like he had hit a nail or something. So I lowered my offer to $200 and he took it.

Now I'm not sure if I should try to have them ground down to new metal or b uy new knives. I've poked around a little-- I don't see them on the web aft er 15 minutes looking, but they might be harder to find than that. Supposed ly, Grainger has parts for these machines.

The divot in the knives is 1-1/4 inch from the motor end and nearly 1/8" wi de. It looks pretty shallow, but I just ran a piece through there and it le aves a nasty hump in the workpiece.

Any ideas? Is there a standard 6-1/8" blade I can use that works as well or better than the originals?

Also the bed has rusty streaks going the long way. How best to clean that u p? I'd like to put a little paste wax on the bed and fence because there's a lot of friction moving the work through there. The streaks don't go all t he way from end-to-end, but maybe 1/3 to 2/3 the length of the bed centered on the drum.

How does one clean something like that up?

TIA,

-Tom

[dpb]

"Stuff happens..."

web after 15 minutes looking, but they might be harder to find than that. Supposedly, Grainger has parts for these machines.

They can be reground at least a couple of times if they're not the flimsy replaceable type -- take actual measurements and let us know what they are in width and thickness and if are any notches at the bottom edge for adjusting/leveling screw as some old Rockwell/Delta machines had.

1/8" wide. It looks pretty shallow, but I just ran a piece through there and it leaves a nasty hump in the workpiece.

A) Get them reground by a good shop that has the facility to do them correctly -- they needs must be straight and ideally take the same amount off each for balance.

Where are you located? I've at least one if not two old 6" sets that I've no need for since don't have the 6" jointer any longer -- I'd have to look; I think one set was resharpened and not used; the other is probably not much better than the ones you have but I'd let 'em both go reasonable if interested as they've just been in the cabinet in shop for

20 yr now.

that up? I'd like to put a little paste wax on the bed and fence because there's a lot of friction moving the work through there. The streaks don't go all the way from end-to-end, but maybe 1/3 to 2/3 the length of the bed centered on the drum.

My favorite is to simply start w/ lubricant (even water is good enough; choose whatever you want from the ubiquitous WD-40 to anything similar avoiding silicon-based stuff) and wet/dry 240 or so paper. Move up to

400 or so as get the surface rust off and it'll shine/feel good as the proverbial bottom of the newborn.

[Tom Red]

I was about to post a reply to my own post, saying that I dialed the 800 nu mber in the manual and found myself talking to Grainger. They showed the kn ives available for $40.05. With shipping and tax, that's about $52, but I f igured, as long as I have them on the phone, I'll just order a set. Maybe I can have the original set ground back to usability, then I'll have spares .

I had done searches on Grainger's site, but searching for stuff on a vendor 's page can be pretty frustrating. I found nothing. But they found it on th e phone easily enough.

I will do that, once I get them out to replace them. Explain more about the se notches??

It came with a knife gauge-- a sort of beam shaped thing with a 3/8" rod co nnecting two pieces that straddle the drum/cutting head with a pad in the m iddle that is slightly lower than the rest. The blade is supposed to touch the pad. The gauge is all metal, none of this plastic junk, so it's probabl y accurate.

I'm in southeastern Wisconsin.

If I can't get the current set ground to usefulness, I'll have to take you up on that. I think the guy said he only used it a few times, so maybe the knives have never been sharpened.

Great! Sounds doable. Think I need to back the paper with a block to keep it flat? Or maybe wrap some 240 w/d around a sanding sponge?

Thanks again.

[Unquestionably Confused]

Tom, if you don't mind "cheating" there's a fix for those nicked blades.

Loosen the mount and "nudge each one, just a scosch (in this case that'll be about 3/32nd OR 1/8" in the direction opposite the one before it. If you have a three blade head, that's one moved in and two moved out (or vice versa)it just takes enough that the nicks in the blade are not in line. The result is the other blades will take care of the wood left high by the other.

I'd be willing to bet that if you choose NOT to "cheat", just about any straight 6" blade (like for a Crapsman) will work fine.)

[woodchucker]

Congrats on the new jointer.

Those knives if there are jack screws or some other form of adjustment should be sharpenable, and you should be able to do them yourself since they are not very long.

just use sandpaper on a glass and start working them.make a jig to hold the small knives, make the jig so it keeps the angle too. lookup the internet there are plenty of jigs for this.

For cleaning up the bed, get a green scotchbrite pad put it on your random orbital sander and start working the rust out... use wd40 or mineral spirits to help.

once that is gone, take some 320 paper and start sanding the bed further. if you have it you can just keep going up 400, to 600... even by hand with a block... then wax the bed with butchers wax, let set and use a cloth to buff it out.

[dpb]

...

800 number in the manual and found myself talking to Grainger. They showed the knives available for $40.05. With shipping and tax, that's about $52, but I figured, as long as I have them on the phone, I'll just order a set. Maybe I can have the original set ground back to usability, then I'll have spares. ...

That's not too bad; the place I usually go has a set of 3 HSS for 35$ so not terribly much different.

...

You'll see it when you remove them if you have them -- I doubt will; I'm not aware of anybody other than the really old Rockwell that did on jointer. There's a cap screw whose edge of the countersink head will fit into the notch on each end and allows for two-way adjustment in height. W/ the removable gibs, it's not difficult to raise one a skooch w/ the bottom screws but if you get a little proud it's start over time 'cuz the blade will jam going back into the tighter direction into the gib and sloped slot. These screws can pull it back down a little w/ losing where you were entirely. Handy...

You really can't take enough base metal off w/ 240 grit paper to worry about it on the bed prep...

[Ed Pawlowski]

I've not bought from Grainger for a couple of years now because their web page is crap. Very difficult to find what I need. McMaster gets an order at least once a week. They have very good and easy to find information.

[jloomis]

Cleaning WD 40 and steel wool. john

I bought a Dayton 6 and 1/8" Jointer (model 4TJ86 or maybe that's the cabinet-- maybe it's 4TJ98) at a rummage sale. When we figured out how to move the fence back a little further (e.g. for wider stock) I discovered the there was a gouge in all three knives-- like he had hit a nail or something. So I lowered my offer to $200 and he took it.

Now I'm not sure if I should try to have them ground down to new metal or buy new knives. I've poked around a little-- I don't see them on the web after 15 minutes looking, but they might be harder to find than that. Supposedly, Grainger has parts for these machines.

The divot in the knives is 1-1/4 inch from the motor end and nearly 1/8" wide. It looks pretty shallow, but I just ran a piece through there and it leaves a nasty hump in the workpiece.

Any ideas? Is there a standard 6-1/8" blade I can use that works as well or better than the originals?

Also the bed has rusty streaks going the long way. How best to clean that up? I'd like to put a little paste wax on the bed and fence because there's a lot of friction moving the work through there. The streaks don't go all the way from end-to-end, but maybe 1/3 to 2/3 the length of the bed centered on the drum.

How does one clean something like that up?

TIA,

-Tom

[dpb]

...

Wet/dry paper works _much_ quicker...and doesn't leave all the dang loose wool bits around, besides...

[Brewster]

There was a jig in one of the WW mags within the last year or two (FWW maybe?). What I liked was this jig sharpened the blades in place. Basically the jig locked into the rabbeting slot and indexed the cutter head at the correct angle for the primary bevel. Use the jig to lock the cutter head in place and sharpen the blade flush with the out feed table, rotate to the next blade and repeat. The back bevel is done the same way. What I really liked was getting all three blades perfectly even to the out feed table and each other. This was a Jet 6"

-Bruce

[Tom Red]

I was about to post a reply to my own post, saying that I dialed the 800 nu mber in the manual and found myself talking to Grainger. They showed the kn ives available for $40.05. With shipping and tax, that's about $52, but I f igured, as long as I have them on the phone, I'll just order a set. Maybe I can have the original set ground back to usability, then I'll have spares .

I had done searches on Grainger's site, but searching for stuff on a vendor 's page can be pretty frustrating. I found nothing. But they found it on th e phone easily enough.

I will do that, once I get them out to replace them. Explain more about the se notches??

It came with a knife gauge-- a sort of beam shaped thing with a 3/8" rod co nnecting two pieces that straddle the drum/cutting head with a pad in the m iddle that is slightly lower than the rest. The blade is supposed to touch the pad. The gauge is all metal, none of this plastic junk, so it's probabl y accurate.

I'm in southeastern Wisconsin.

If I can't get the current set ground to usefulness, I'll have to take you up on that. I think the guy said he only used it a few times, so maybe the knives have never been sharpened.

Great! Sounds doable. Think I need to back the paper with a block to keep it flat? Or maybe wrap some 240 w/d around a sanding sponge?

[Tom Red]

Yeah, McMaster Carr does a little better job on the web site. True dat. I wonder if the have blades for power tools. Never thought of that. Wouldn't have thought of Grainger if their 800- number hadn't been printed in the manual.

[dpb]

On 8/25/2013 4:17 PM, Tom Red wrote: ...

I generally don't bother if it's just a little surface rust that won't take much work -- if there's more as somebody else mentioned remove the fence to get it out of the way entirely and just start w/ 100 or so and the ROS -- it'll leave a few small scratches, but they'll work out quickly w/ finer grits.

Unless you really hog at it, the rust is so much softer than the cast base metal you're not going to remove enough to matter...

On setting blades/jigs...for HSS blades that are magnetic, I use a homemade jig that is simply a couple of straight pieces of hard maple about 6-8" long w/ three magnets attached--Radio Shack has a set of

3/4x1 or so that are ideal for the purpose. Put one on each end, another about 2/3-rds way along between the two for the knife.

To use, raise the tables to be level and lock the cutter head at TDC; most will have a way to do that; the Delta has a hole in the end at each blade position and a screw hole for a #10 screw and a small locking tab that fits on it w/ a pin that goes into the hole. Anything to hold the position is fine lacking same.

Then, the magnet holds the knife at the same level while you lock them down. Works like a champ...I was shown it by an old far^h^hellow back in Lynchburg some 40+ yr ago but somebody submitted it to FWW and it was published in their front Tips section a year or so ago...

[Scott Lurndal]

FWIW, Dayton is Graingers 'House' brand.

[Lew Hodgett]

--------------------------------------- Works for me.

For $50, I'd get a new set of knives and install them using the gage.

Send the knicked knives out for a regrind and use them as a backup.

Lew

[Pat Barber]

Well, I did find the jointer:

Which is a typical Chinese jointer.

New knives should not be a problem, but be aware that knives come in more than one thickness so a micrometer is in order to get the correct size.

I bet those folks over at Grizzly can fix you right up with a set of knives.

Remember to get the correct thickness...........

[G. Ross]

Love that description "Knicked knives".

[Sonny]

And the correct width? I'm not familiar with 6" jointers. Do they require 5/8" wide blades, only, or can 1" wide blades be used? * 5/8" sure doesn't seem very wide!

If only 5/8" wide blades, I think I have 2, 3 or 4 old sets of HSS 8" X 1" X 1/8" that have been sharpen so many times, they don't fit my jointer, anymore.... width is too small, now. They're probably close to 5/8" wide, I supppose.

You, or anyone else, are welcome to them, if I can find them. Slow grind a "V" groove ~2" from the end, snap off the short end, to make them 6" long. I was to try to make some sort of chisels with them, but have never gotten around to that project.

Sonny

[Lew Hodgett]

---------------------------------------

"Lew Hodgett" wrote:

------------------------------------------------------ Update: If the knife blades truly require grinding away a 1'4" of material to get rid of the nicks, then the resharpening cost may exceed the cost of new blades.

Lew

[Gramps' shop]

Hey, Tom ...

I am also in SE WI and need to change knives on my Jet jointer. If you wan t an extra pair of hands or a kibbitzer drop me a note at lawrence.r.tarnof fATgmail.com

Larry

inet-- maybe it's 4TJ98) at a rummage sale. When we figured out how to move the fence back a little further (e.g. for wider stock) I discovered the th ere was a gouge in all three knives-- like he had hit a nail or something. So I lowered my offer to $200 and he took it.

buy new knives. I've poked around a little-- I don't see them on the web a fter 15 minutes looking, but they might be harder to find than that. Suppos edly, Grainger has parts for these machines.

wide. It looks pretty shallow, but I just ran a piece through there and it leaves a nasty hump in the workpiece.

or better than the originals?

up? I'd like to put a little paste wax on the bed and fence because there' s a lot of friction moving the work through there. The streaks don't go all the way from end-to-end, but maybe 1/3 to 2/3 the length of the bed center ed on the drum.