Cub Scout Car Race

[patrick conroy]

Ahh - the Cabal makes a feeble attempt to hide in the Witness Protection Program...

My rules:

1) It has to be *his* car. Too many Dads get caught up in the competition and take over the construction. The kid ends up watching. 2) Keep it fun. If he wants to do something that'll guarantee last place, do it - it's his car. Your job is Foreman, he's the Boss.

Lil' personal insight - I don't have a ton of fond memories of childhood. But of the few I do, one is me and my Dad doing the Pinewood Derby.

This just might be one of those moments he files away in "novRAM".

[J. Clarke]

Fnord.

[Unisaw A100]

A'yup!

And don't forget the GPS.

UA100, Fifth Place but our wind tunnel was ho-made...

[Greg Millen]

Tom,

I like Toller's and Patrick's replies, it's about father/son quality time - not winning.

Let him build it, but ask him why he wants to do something. Research with him, show him how to use the tools, explain about competitions, winning and what the true aim is. Ask him what *he* expects to get out of it.

When you go to the meet, focus on him enjoying the day and try to ignore the individual (there's always one) that tries to win at all costs (it'll be a parent). Leave before the inevitable argument about the interpretation of the "rules".

If you get it right, win or lose, your son will want to spend more time with dad making 'cool' stuff.

Oh yeah, as Keeter said, mount a GPS, but make sure it's at the back.

I wish you both luck.

[George]

Don't need to Google for the rules. They're provided with the official kit.

Poor wheel alignment is what kills most otherwise promising entrants. Four on the floor at all times.

Weights in the "pusher" position seem best. Since the cars usually end up wedge-shaped, it's easy enough to bore a hole with a Forstner, sized properly for a copper plumbing end cap. Bore the cap for #6 sheetmetal screw for final attachment, use up the sinkers as required. It doesn't need to be at the max to run fine.

I always insisted on making the weight holder for my two boys, and then marked a no-cut area 1/4 around the axle insert points before turning it over to them for style. Paper templates seemed better than freestyle.

I also insisted on doing the wheel alignment. Best advice on wheels is to let the boys sand all flashing and irregularity off the rolling portion with block-mounted paper, while the wheels are chucked in a drill press. Graphite on race day (after appearance judging!) finishes the job.

The kids had some real uglies at first, but by the last two years (we raced WEBELOS), they improved. All of 'em ran well, because I got the information above from another father. Kids still have their trophies in their box of "I am great" stuff.

Get your troop to have non-scout competitions, too. I enjoyed racing a car, even when my own daughter beat me two years in a row in the finals.

[Bruce Barnett]

The weight they sell for derbys is tapered, allowing you to break off chunks if it weights to much.

Did you hear about the guy who hid a magnet in the front? The track in his pack's derby uses a metal bar to ensure all started at the same time. It was ferrous.

And when the metal gate was dropped, one car "leaped ahead."

p.s. He was caught.

[Grant P. Beagles]

My best advice is look at the basic rules, follow them, and have FUN! Way too many dads become obsessed with winning pinwood derbies. The event is supposed to be a father-SON build. When I was Cubmaster, you could immediately spot the cars that dad had done. Sometimes the kids weren't allowed to touch them (really sad if you think about it). We made sure that there were prizes for lots of things other than winning. We had on the spot awards for things like "Most Creative use of Glitter", "Most Colorful", "Coolest Design Idea"... None of these awards went to dad built cars. After all, the event is for the kids, RIGHT!?!?

Grant

Tom Wats> My son, a new Cub Scout, has told me that he wants to participate in a

[toller]

We have talked about that, in hopes it would help prevent the Dads from simply building the cub's cars. Does it help?

[Murray]

Tom, I ran several Pinewood Derby races during my tenure as Cubmaster. Here's a link to the last set of rules that we raced with.

You need to contact the pack's leadership and see if they have their own "official" rules. There are some links to good websites at the bottom of the rules that have some designs for your son to look at. Above all, have fun at it, and let your son do as much as possible. We also had an Outlaw race that was open to all comers, mainly to try to give the dads an outlet for their own ambitions. Here's a good set of general things to remember: And on the lighter side: you have any questions just holler, and I'll see if I can help you out.

Murray DeVore

[dan cordes]

Many good replies for the most part. I've been doing "pinewood deby" cars for more than 30 years. I have countless 1st, 2nd and 3rd place finishes. Very few other place finishes! (Lot's of boy in the family!) First and formost is wheels! Must be lubricated. use graphite and they ust be aligned. Run the car on 3 wheels 25% less friction. As you can tell it's all about reducing friction. Get the car to max. weight (5 ounces) Don't rely on the postal scales. Get the car weighed on the "pack" scale. All scales are different only the "pack" scale counts. Get it as close to weight as possible you can always adjust it on race day after weighing in on the "pack" scale. Lightly sand the wheels. they will have burrs on them. they must be removed. If allowed by the pack, round the wheels as much as possible. Thus less wheel on the track and less friction. Put the wheels and axels in a baggie filled with the graphite and "shake and bake" them and let sit in the graphite as long as possible before race day. Relube the wheels as close to the time of the first race as allowed by the pack. Let the scout shape the car and paint/decorate it as he pleases. The shape and decorations won't effect the running of the car. Good luck. But remember the most inportant thing about the pinewood derby is to have fun with the scout building the car and have fun race day enjoying the race. Do not emphisise the winning and losing. It's all for fun. But that dosen't mean you can't do the above mentioned to increase the fun a bit by winning. :-)

Dan "Tom Watson" wrote in message news: [e-mail]...

[patrick conroy]

*That's* an interesting idea...

[RonB]

(I knew this would start a string when I saw it last evening)

Tom: WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF ADULTS COMPETING WITH ADULTS, USING WOODEN TOY CARS, WHILE KIDS WATCH. We do, at least, let the kids put the car on the track.

I was involved in this with my son and nephews both as a parent and scout leader. I was astounded at the level of competitiveness among adults - not necessarily healty competition.

The scouts have a specification book that includes rules, weights, etc. You can buy Pinewood Derby kits that include the block of wood, wheel, axle nails, and the rules. The block of wood is optional but you have to use their wheels and nails.

I know of parents buying their own electronic scale (most grocery stores are glad to let you use one), applying computer modeling, applying custom laquer jobs, etc. We even had one car that supposedly was tested in the Wichita State University wind tunnel (Dad was an aerodynamicist that worked with WSU - Probably true. It lost).

The secrets abound:

- Put your weight low for a slingshot effect when it hits the bottom of the grade.

- Put your weight high for a slingshot effect when it hits the bottom of the grade.

- Spin you wheels to polish the axle and wheel race. (GENTLY, Belt sander? - NO!)

- Leave one wheel off of the track. (Half of the cars actually built by boys are this way anyway.)

- Very small frontal area. With one exception, this seems to be true. The very thin, wedge shaped cars seemed to do a little better. However one year we had a pretty artistic rendition of a model T roadster that won.

- Polish the finish. They look nice but this still goes back to the WSU car that lost. My son did win best design one year with a wedge and a rubbed paint job.

THE TRUE SECRETS OF SUCCESS IN THE PINEWOOD DERBY ARE:

- Work with your son

- Let him have THE active role in design and build

- Bury your ego

- Have fun with your child and make him feel good!

[RonB]

As I recall this was not Pinewood Derby. It acutally happened years ago during the Soap Box Derby nationals. I belive the car had a fiberglass nose fairing with an imbedded magnet. The drop of the metal start gate did give it a push. Somehow they figured it out and disqualified the car (which had obviously done well to get to nationals).

Another example of poor adult judgement and example. One year I saw a Soap Box Derby Car with machined aluminum parts, fine finished wooden parts, rubbed laquer paint and jeweled sponsor's lettering. The best part about it was a much simpler father/son garage-built car blew it away and won the event.

[RonB]

OH, I forgot.

Win or lose, when it is over help your boy build a simple display for his car so he can show it off in his room. My son is 26 and I think he still knows where a couple of his cars are.

[DJ Delorie]

We have an "unlimited" class for people who don't like rules :-)

[George]

Not necessarily, but it can lead to some real fun on race night.

Competititive types will not be deterred by any sanction.

[Dave Hinz]

There is no Cabal. And besides, I know you're in it because you're never at the meetings.

[Pat Barber]

Dead simple, but a few notes on the Pinewood Derby...

(a) No bett> My son, a new Cub Scout, has told me that he wants to participate in a

[patrick conroy]

So I've washed the Board's cars. Picked up their laundry. Bought three kegs (which I dropped off since you wouldn't let me stay).

The hazing wasn't as bad as I thought, tho' it was very cold and the cop didn't think it was very funny. And I don't think the squirrel had a good time at all.

How much longer before you guys vote on new members???

[bridger]

any day now.

and don't forget to drop off the 300 board feet of curly bubinga.