Combo Jointer /Planer

[Leon]

I am considering the purchase of a combination jointer/ planer machine.

I had a Craftsman 6" jointer years ago and it was useful for tying our dogs leashes to. Not much else. When our last Great Dane express less interest of being out in the shop with me I got rad of that planer.

I currently have a 15" Delta stationary planer that has no frills. And the motor has to be removed to sharpen the knives. No fun there and this actually detours me from wanting to use it al all. Prior to that I had one of the first bench top planers, a Ryobi AP10. And I used that thing all the time.

Anyway when I build for customers I have little use for a jointer. I buy S4S lumber. Buying ready to go lumber saves me time and the customer money paying me to mill the wood. S4S comes in consistent sizes so materials optimization programs work really well.

I want to focus more on smaller jobs/projects that are easy to deliver. ;~)

And I want to use more exotic/expensive woods for this purpose. Enter the need again for a jointer. We all know that rough cut lumber is less expensive than S4S. And with smaller projects there is no need for a jointer that can straighten an 8' board.

With all of this in mind I am looking at both 12" and 16" jointer/planer combo machines.

With the 16" machine I get a planer that will handle 1" wider than I can handle now and I get a really wide jointer.

I can buy a jointer by it self and continue to use my 15" planer but the

3 car garage is getting smaller. I will sell the 15" Delta planer. The como machine should only take up twice the space of my planer. My Delta planer is on a mobile base and has the larger chrome roller in feed and out feed extensions so it has a bigger than normal foot print. They do fold down but still the foot print is bigger.

Does any on here have or use a jointer/planer combo machine?

Thoughts?

I have worn YouTube out watching videos on the offerings from different brands.

The machines that I am seriously considering are from Jet and Hammer.

I looked at Grizzly, 12", with the spiral carbide toothed cutter head. And that looked promising until I compared it to the Hammer cutter head. The Grizzly cutter head had 32 carbide teeth. The Hammer 12" had what appears to be a load more. The Grizzly teeth seem to be spaced every other one as blank with 4 quarter turn rows. The Hammer teeth appear to almost be over lapping next to each other and appear to have a single full complete revolution row.

Hammer claims and some video's indicate that their cutter head/carbide teeth, runs much more quietly. I wonder if that is because you hear a constant shearing vs, hearing 4 separate tows of teeth hitting the wood. Anyway shocking less noisy than my 15" Delta with DC running.

Thoughts?

12" vs. 16" 16" would be lovely to have but would I ever use that capacity? It's tables are a couple of inches shorter than a conventional 8" jointer, 70" And I'll say again, I'm not looking to straighten 8' boards. BUT WOW a 16" jointer!!!! 12" is smaller.....and a lot wider than my current non-existent jointer. The planer would naturally also be 12" and 3" narrower than my 15" Delta. Tables are about 16" shorter than the 16" model, 54"

Comparing the foot print of the 12 and 16 Hammers, the 16" is 16" longer and 4" deeper.

I see some complaints about the Hammer but mostly about the fence. It like most in this category is extruded aluminum attached to a sheet metal adjustment carriage. Most going to these type setups from the conventional joiners wish for an iron fence because there is no back and forth deflection at the far end of the fence. Does that even matter? It is not like you are ripping to a specific width on a jointer. So I don't think this concerns me. The fence does hold the angle setting with no complaints about that.

Carbide tooth cutter heads certainly go farther between sharpening and I suspect that a replacement set, after using all 4 cutting edges would be a wash over replacing or resharpening high speed steel knives over the same period of use. Hammer claims 20 times longer use out of carbide teeth vs. their double edged disposable knives. IIRC their disposable knives are between $20~$30. IIRC the carbide teeth are approximately $325-$375 per set.

Thoughts?

I have pretty much eliminated the Grizzly from the mix. It is much less expensive but all things considered I think I would be happier with the Hammer. Grizzly made some where in Asia, Hammer made in Austria. The

12" Hammer and 12" Grizzly are currently priced $4250. and $3000 respectively. The 12" Hammer is currently on promotion for 17% off regular price of $5094. The 16" Hammer is normally $6849, on promotion, $5960.

PLUS shipping and a mobility kit and a dial indicator for planer thickness. Apparently accurate to thousands of an inch. And Tax.

This machine IS NOT expected to pay for itself so much as help me process more exotic unmiled wood.

Thoughts?

The 12" Jet compares, in size with the Hammer 12" All specs, that I am concerned about are with in an inch or so. Both the Jet and the Hammer designs have been around for at least 10 years. The Jet is currently on sale at 15% off, $3654 vs $4299 through the end of this month. The jet has free delivery.

I think for $600 more the Hammer, being Austrian made vs. the Asian Jet might make me feel better. If I decide on the 16" Hammer, nothing else that I have looked at interests me.

I looked at the MiniMax FS 30c but was totally turned off with the effort to convert to planer mode. It has the American vs. Euro guard and has to be disassembled and removed, the fence also has to be removed. And then the tables, in feed and out feed lift independently and and different angles. From what I have read keeping the tables co planer was a problem until manufacturers tied the tables together to lift up as a unit. Nothing has to be removed on the Hammer.

So I'm leaning towards the Hammer, 12 or 16"

[dpb]

On 11/23/2020 1:29 PM, Leon wrote: ...

I can't see ever going smaller than what you can manage. Just because you don't use it all the time; the times you do is worth its weight in gold.

_UNLESS_ you have easy access to other shops for the occasional use; here in a very small locale even the commercial guys don't have anything of any size and the c-college has closed their woodworking program...

I've not used the Hammer specifically so can't really comment on it.

I have used an older Incra...but I wouldn't recommend it owing to changeover hassles. Altho I think they've been redesigned since, too, maybe?

[Leon]

Thanks!

The advantage to going 16 over 12 "now" the price difference is much less that if going from 12 to 16 "later".

That keeps haunting me. I never dreamed that I would use my Domino as much as I have.

[dpb]

If you're intending to keep working commercially for any length of time at all (I've no idea how old you are, exactly, altho know you're younger than I by a ways), I can't see how you could possibly go wrong with more rather than less. It may open up other avenues than those you've yet tapped, as well.

I have always bought roughsawn stock in bulk so to me having the facilities has always been a necessity. I brought the 18" PM 180 planer with me; I am now limited to the 8" Rockwell-Delta jointer that is a pain on occasion whereas in both VA and TN had easy access to either a

12" or 24" depending.

But, only you know what you actually do and what kinds of additional commissions you might consider accepting in the future. I did a fair amount of small business conference room tables, credenzas, etc., in VA that basically required the heft.

I've done no commercial commissions since returning to the farm--too small a town to have any significant demand for anything other than cookie-cutter so not interesting work plus just not enough time if were to try to really drum up anything.

Trying to finish our house is more than I've managed in 20 years, so far... :)

[John McGaw]

Well, Hammer equipment is definitely top-shelf stuff and I've never heard a complaint other than the pain induced by writing the check for it. I use a Robland X-31 combination machine which has a 12" planer/jointer, table saw, spindle shaper, and even a mortising machine. It is definitely bottom tier equipment compared to Hammer but I've had no problems beyond replacing the original knives with flip-over insert blades and replacing some belts in 20 years. As in all things, you will invariably find stock that you need that just won't fit into your equipment. I fell into that with my dining room table but was lucky enough to get somebody in the WW guild to run my big slabs through his heavy iron.

[Leon]

I have never pushed this to be a living, although I think if I advertised I might be overwhelmed. Considering that this started out as a hobby when I was 10 and 14 years later a more serious hobby and another 5 years as therapy, ;~) and finally 10~12 years after that something that could not be hidden from the tax man, here is where I am at. I'm 66.

I do not intend to build big any more unless the project looks fun. And again, if I am selling a large piece of furniture I buy wood ready to go.

FWIW I saw a YouTube video a few days ago that showed how to mill stock wider than the capacity of the jointer. Maybe have have seen or heard of this.

Absolutely! And why I buy the wood already processed. In the Houston area my labor is more expensive than the difference in price of milled and unmilled wood. Another reason that I never expect for this machine to pay for itself. Now I can go to a mill and buy rough cut directly, and save more money buying wood. But that involves a 2 hour drive both ways and a couple of hours at the mill. That technically becomes more expensive when I add 6 hours of my labor time.

I would really like to produce these, a dozen or so at a time.

Especially when compared to this tool box company. When I built the above chests about 15 years ago the going price was about $2200.00 each. A couple of years ago, over $3,000 each. I sold the second one in that picture to a neighbor for $800. Apparently they have quit offering this style. I'm guessing the asking price was too high. The time to build is mostly on the set up, hence several at a time to bring down production cost.

Home ownership, a never ending chore. Keep us posted! ;~)

[Leon]

Snip

HA! I have a lot of money invested in my equipment and this would likely be my most expensive. But compared to my wife's Shangrala upstairs quilting studio.... We bought her a new Husqvarna sewing/embroidery machine, because 2 were not enough, a couple of years ago. Gasp.....$12,000.

I use a Robland X-31 combination machine which has a 12"

Thanks for the input.

[Leon]

I pulled the trigger, and or I have told the sales rep that I want to mover forward with the A3 31 unit with Spiral cutter head and dial indicator for the elevation crank on the planer bed.

Now the wait.... May or June.

[Leon]

Weeeeeeelllll,

The Hammer A3 31 priced out at $5152.00 including delivery charges. And at the last minute I almost went with the A3 41, 16" version but that was going to be $6727.00 including delivery.

I was twice ready to pull the trigger but then came the sales contract that I had to initial. The delivery line item has wording that I absolutely objected to. My sales person tried to get the wording to include lift gate delivery instead of NO GUARANTEE of lift gate delivery. And I was going to pay a premium for shipping, $450.00. That was at least double all other charges by different tool companies. While the salesman tried to explain that I would get lift gate delivery and that the contract was legal-ese, I passed. Oh and the waiting period was until sometime in June of next year. And the quoted price could go up..... A hard PASS>

So Now I am waiting for delivery of the Jet JJP12HH. Specs on the Jet are almost identical to the Hammer A3 31, 12" combo.

Pricing was better too. I got in on the last day of the 15% off sale that Jet was running with free delivery direct to my home. Still no guarantee of lift gate. Alternatively I went to my local Woodcraft and talked to the store manager. He checked availability and offered the machine at the sale price too. He would order the machine and receive it at his store. Then he will deliver the machine with lift gate truck... My total delivery charges are $25.

Sold! Drive out price with lift gate delivery and a Bora PM 3550 mobile base, just over $4100.