Best wood floors in dry climate?

I live in Colorado, and a few years ago had a bamboo floor installed in my kitchen and living room, and have been very disappointed. Despite the whole-house humidifier attached to the forced air heating system, the "planks" (is that the right word?) contract in the winter, and then kitchen debris finds its way into the cracks, and we end up with ugly black lines where the planks touch.

So now we're wanting to replace the 20-year-old carpet in the upstairs with some kind of wood floor, and are not sure which way to go.

The other complication, is that we need to live in these rooms while we're putting in new floors - we'll move all the furniture out of the unused bedroom, redo its floor, move my daughter into that bedroom, redo her floor, etc. so we whatever we use, it needs to be prefinished.

There are some nice-looking engineered wood products, but we're concerned about the odors ... the off-gassing from a lot of those kinds of products gives us headaches, which pushes us towards solid wood, but then with solid wood you can't install a floating floor, so I'm worried we would get the gap problem again. And then again, I'm wondering if it's maybe the offgassing from the prefinish that gives us the headache, in which case for the headache it wouldn't matter if we chose solid vs. engineered vs. laminate.

Was the guy at Home Depot right, that the more traditional woods (oak, for example) do better in the dry climate of Colorado?

Thanks, Chris

Reply to
Chris Shearer Cooper
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If a wood floor is installed without opening up packages and allow to aclimatize to the lower humidity of your home this can happen, its not a bamboo problem its a installer problem, a real pro has a moisture meter handy. For all you know the floor was stored in a very humid place before you got it, it can take weeks to aclimatize wood to a house before install. Did a store install it that sold it to you, then there was a warranty, id call the manufacturer and ask.

Reply to
ransley

Both topics viz.

-- expansion/contraction of wood flooring with changing humidity,

-- health effects of varnishes, manufactured flooring, etc. are research topics at the US National Bureau of Standards (building research division, or whatever it is called.) I.e. you can get expert advice there, probably free (because US taxpayers paid for it in the first place.) You may find no wood is wholly free from either effect.

Reply to
Don Phillipson

Well, you start off on the wrong foot ... bamboo is NOT wood, it is a _grass_. :)

And the OP's is most definitely a "bamboo problem" (related to "climate"), and more than likely NOT an installation problem.

Bamboo is notorious for having wildly varying degrees of moisture content, some of which has not been observed to change for months no matter how long the acclimation period ... unless in an extremely dry client, like where the OP indicates his is installed.

With regard to moisture meters ... once again, bamboo is not wood, and moisture meters are calibrated to use on WOOD, and furthermore, specific species of wood.

AAMOF, I can personally attest that as of the summer of 09 there were no moisture meters currently on the retail market calibrated to accurately and consistently determine the actual moisture content of bamboo flooring .. which was the last time I was asked to have on installed.

Unless there have been very recent changes, the only way to approximate a usable MC reading of bamboo is by _comparison_ with a known sample, using the same meter, thus your "real pro" is basically at the same loss to give an accurate MC for installation as any DIY'er without a moisture meter would be.

Most important thing when contemplating using bamboo flooring is the quality of the product. This is the single most important factor on whether you will have a successful installation ...and, as with all the Pacific Rim shoe merchants and ribbon clerks looking to make a buck these days, that is a most difficult thing to do with this particular _grass_ flooring product.

The second is the climate of the locale of the intended installation.

In short, bamboo flooring, despite what the retailers will try to tell you, seems to be more suitable when building for what are classified in the trade as "Hot, Humid, Climates", and can be problematic, as the OP has discovered, when building in drier climates.

IOW, the single biggest factors in the success of the installation in drier climates is the QUALITY of the product ... a hit and miss proposition at best in this day and age, and one reason why, as a builder, even then I generally discourage my clients from using the stuff.

IME, YMMV, FWIW, etc. ....

Reply to
Swingman

Moisture meters measure % of moisture they are not only "calibrated to wood" The one I use Delmhorst, has scales on the screen to use it for concrete plaster or wood. In construction you have to Know when concrete, plaster, drywall, wood are too wet to use and too wet to paint. The floor guys I have used have them, it saves them from doing bad jobs and redoing floors. Inspectors and roofers use them to pinpoint problems, Its one tool that has saved me alot of money over the years from bogus complaints and knowing a products moisture before working with it, like PT, everybody wants it stained now when its new, and it works on Bamboo.

Reply to
ransley

You're shooting yourself in the foot, Bubba ... show me were it is calibrated for GRASS!

;)

Reply to
Swingman

I have no idea whether he is correct or not but I certainly prefer it. My experience...

I laid solid maple in my wife's home office about 10-12 years ago. The planks are about 2 1/2" wide. We live in central Florida...hot and very humid in the summer, cool and much dryer - but not as dry as Colorado - in the winter.

The planks were acclimatized in the house for several weeks. They were laid in the summer and as tight to each other as I could get them. Most but not all were tight to their neighbors; any gaps were minimal - maybe 1/64 - and were due to planks not being perfectly straight. Gaps were filled with saw dust and varnish before final sanding and finishing.

In the winter, most all planks are still tight to their neighbors. Those that are not are 1/32 at the most. Oddly, the tight ones that had slight filling push up that filling in the winter...not enough to be easily visible but enough to feel with your finger. That pushing up may be year around, don't know.

Winter or summer, the floor looks good and homogenous.

Reply to
dadiOH

Here you go, Bubba ... backs up everything I said about my experiences as builder with bamboo flooring:

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you check around further you will find ample evidence that moisture meters are notoriously inaccurate with bamboo flooring.

Reply to
Swingman

Moisture meters measure % of moisture they are not only "calibrated to wood" The one I use Delmhorst, has scales on the screen to use it for concrete plaster or wood. In construction you have to Know when concrete, plaster, drywall, wood are too wet to use and too wet to paint. The floor guys I have used have them, it saves them from doing bad jobs and redoing floors. Inspectors and roofers use them to pinpoint problems, Its one tool that has saved me alot of money over the years from bogus complaints and knowing a products moisture before working with it, like PT, everybody wants it stained now when its new, and it works on Bamboo.

Swingman is right.

I use a Delmhorst RDM2, a high end meter but several years old, it does not have a built in calibration for bamboo, here is a conversion table to go from doug fir to bamboo flooring:

Doug Fir reading -Actual % M/C

6- 3 7- 3.5 8 -4 9 -4.5 10- 5 11 -6 12 -6.5 13 -7 14 -7.5 15 -8 16 -8.5 17- 9 18 -9.5 19 -10 20 -11 21 -11.5 22 -12 23 -12.5 24 -13 25 13.5 26 -14 27 -14.5 28 -15.5

The important point is the equilibrium moisture content, at 72 degrees and 15% relative humidity the ECM is only

2.5%, any floor laid at a higher moisture content that this will eventually shrink and leave cracks.

It may take a year for hardwood flooring to reach ECM, no one can wait a year to lay their floor, acclimating the flooring to the house for a couple of days or a week may help a little but is for the most part worthless. Bamboo isn't hardwood and I have found no information on the drying rate, it being a closed cell glued up product I suspect Swing is right about it not drying out at any timely speed.

There is a handy ECM calculator here:

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quality hardwood flooring is dried to 7-8% MC and when laid will swell slightly in most home environments making a nice tight floor that doesn't generally leave much gap even in dry periods.

Most wood shrinks and swells the most between

12% and 25% MC, with smaller changes between 0% and 12%. I have no idea about the shrinkage rate of bamboo.

I think people expect consistent perfection from wood/bamboo/cork/name your favorite cellulose based floor, from products that cannot deliver it. If you want wood/bamboo floors you kinda have to accept their builtin characteristics.

basilisk

Reply to
basilisk

Wake up, any PRO will know a higher than normal moisture content by experiance, you need a chart for grass , get one. Moisture meters check % of moisture for just about any material that absorbes it, I will bet anything one wasnt used on the bamboo, and it wasnt even attempted to be aclimatised.

Reply to
ransley

I live in Fort Collins.

I have over 1000sf of bamboo.

My HVAC system has a Honeywell steam humidifier that runs at 41%, year- round, BUT will dial down the RH below 32*F, to prevent window condensation.

My bamboo floor has had NO problems, whatsoever.

I would tend to agree with the notion that your product wasn't appropriately acclimatized to its new environment.

But ... what RH are you running, and ... how consistent is it??

Reply to
Neil Brooks

What is the humidifier set to? What is your humidity swing from winter to summer?

Solid wood expands/contracts with humidity. No stopping it. Engineered will move much less, it's basically plywood. The amount of expansion in a solid wood floor will depend on the species. Look at the "% Tangential Shrinkage" column in the table at "

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". The lower the number, the less shrinkage you'll see as it dries.

I would expect most of the offgassing to be minimal in prefinished solid and engineered flooring. Laminate will have some offgassing from the resin in the core, though better grades will have less.

Bamboo behaves differently depending on whether it is horizontal, vertical, or strand. In the vertical orientation it's supposed to shrink less than oak--but that assumes it was properly acclimatized before installation.

Chris

Reply to
Chris Friesen

This is purely anecdotal, but something to check out before going with an engineered "Pergo"-type floor. Our cabin on Mt. Charleston was at about 8000' altitude. The flooring on both levels was a mixture of the Pergo-type flooring and carpet. During the time we owned it, there was quite a bit of foot traffic in and out of a lower level doorway, onto a deck that held our hot tub. Being in a mountainous area, there was lots of snow, rain and ice. Despite typical precautions, such as throw rugs, and wiping up, moisture was brought in onto the flooring from wet feet, fresh from the hot tub, snow and rain.

At first, the flooring held up well, but then we began to notice swelling at the joints. It was not the type of swelling seen in real wood flooring, but the particle board backing actually expanding and coming unglued.

We brought the damage to a halt by purchasing an industrial walk-off mat from Home Depot. It was 4' X 5', approximately and had a solid rubber back that was completely water resistant, with a fleece-like top surface. When there would be a known incident of water coming in, I'd even move the mat to be sure nothing was trapped beneath it, but the size essentially prevented that. It was sure not very pretty, but about the only way I could prevent the Pergo-like flooring from coming apart.

If I was installing it now, with knowledge of what happened at the cabin, at least the pieces near the doorway would get a coat of waterproofing on the tongues, grooves and back, such as Varathane.

Reply to
Nonny

You just neatly excluded yourself from your "PRO" class, Bubba. Your basic "PRO" would know the difference between wood and grass, and would know the characteristics of the material he deals with before mouthing off.

Another shot, right in your foot!! ... hope you got more than two, you won't last long at this rate! :)

Reply to
Swingman

Real wood flooring can often recover gracefully from man made or natural disasters, like those resulting in water damage. Not always the case with alternatives.

One excellent reason, of many, to use it.

Reply to
Swingman

Have you by any chance asked a pro flooring outfit what they recommend ?

I bet they will not recommend a product that requires a call back.

Chris Shearer Co> I live in Colorado, and a few years ago had a bamboo floor installed

Reply to
Pat Barber

A solid wood floor is gonna expand and contract unless you can effectively keep the humidity at the same level all year round. Composites will do the same, but less. That's the nature of wood. For bath/kitchen vinyl is the practical choice.

Reply to
Phisherman

On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:45:21 -0800 (PST), the infamous Chris Shearer Cooper scrawled the following:

Chris, the simple answer is to keep your humidity in the house the same yearround. Don't leave the windows open, do use bathroom fans and kitchen fans, etc. Check with your Carrier HVAC dealer. If you want the outside air, go outside. Build yourself a nice covered and/or screened porch and enjoy.

-- "Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt." -- Clarence Darrow

Reply to
Larry Jaques

Install cork flooring and don't worry about open windows, bathroom fans or high/low humidity levels.

Reply to
salty

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