Applying contact cement

[BUB 209]

I've never looked forward to applying contact cement with a paint roller, if you're not careful things can get out of hand with globs and smearing and uneven coating. As an alternative I was borrowing a friends pressurized tank from time to time. If you're used to using that system, I guess that's the state of the art. But I found something at the local lumberyard that works better than anything I've ever tried. It's just a 9" roller cover made specifically for applying adhesive. Its just a densely woven texture with little bumps like berber carpeting. It puts the cement down in even little dots at just the right thickness, totally foolproof. Unfortunately they come in an unmarked wrapper so I don't have any information about who makes them, but I got them at Fox Lumber, Alsip, IL. (708-636-

3500)

[Charlie Self]

bub209 remarks:

A notched piece of scrap laminate works nicely, too. Make a series of notches maybe 1/8" deep across the base, making the laminate piece as wide as you can effectively use. Then use it as a spreader. Works really well.

If you do a lot of laminating, make a half dozen or more at one clip by taping them together before cutting the notches.

Charlie Self "Politics: A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. The conduct of public affairs for private advantage. " Ambrose Bierce

[Tom Watson]

The ones I use are Bestt Liebco Professional, fiberglass resin, Tru-Pro, 9", 1/4" nap, 895009 Frieze 9V95.

Bestt Liebco

1800 Morris St. Fond Du Lac, Wisconsin 54935

[Mike]

I've been rolling contact cement for years with no problems using the cheapest roller I can find. I suspect you are still using the nasty old type which works best with spray equipment and in commercial applications. Do yourself and your brain cells a favor and use the water based stuff. It is a better quality product, easier to use, bonds better, spreads easier and more evenly, and much safer, superior in all respects. There is no reason other that habit (or lack of brain cells) to use that old stuff anymore.

Mike

[Tom Watson]

I don't think that most professionals would agree with you that water based is a better quality product, bonds better and is superior in all respects.

If that is true then why does Wilsonart make fourteen flammable formulations of contact adhesive and only one of water based?

cf:

'll go along with you that the flammable is nastier to be around but it doesn't take any more care than using nitro lacquer, which is still the most used finish in small cabinet shops.

My own experience tells me that the flammable adhesive sets up quicker, gives a stronger initial bond and is more resistant to delaminating over time.

I'll be glad for the day that this is no longer true but I don't think we're there yet.

Regards, Tom Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania

[Tom Plamann]

15 years now with great success. I have tried other contact cement, including many water based products, and they do not come close to the performance of the 3M product. In fact, the bond gets stronger with age. It is pricey and you can not buy it at the local lumber house.

Tom Plamann

[Lew Hodgett]

If I'm going to do some serious laminate work, then it is spray gun time.

Having said that, I go thru a lot of notched trowels laying epoxy fairing compound which serves as a cement to hold foam against a fiberglass surface to form a sandwich construction. Very similar to laying floor tile.

These trowels are strictly a one time use item. Forget about trying to clean them.

I use 1/4" scrap acrylic plastic and a 1/4" box joint jig on a table saw.

Make up a couple of dozen at a crack, say about 3"-4" wide, x 12" lg.

Same technique would also work with counter top grade laminate.

Vertical grade might be a little "iffy" since it is so thin.

HTH

[Mike in Mystic]

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the timely post. I went and picked up one of these Bestt Liebco rollers today, along with some more DAP Weldwood original contact cement (I couldn't find any of the 3M stuff, so I went with what was there).

Anyway, I applied the 1/4" masonite edging and top skin to my 3x3/4" MDF benchtop and using the roller made a noticeable difference in how even the cement went down. Are these rollers reusable? It doesn't seem to have built up much of the cement. I wiped it down with some mineral spirits, but the fumes from the cement were too much for me (I was dumb and took off my respirator during clean-up).

This was the first time I ever used contact cement, and boy is it potent (at least the organic-based stuff I had). I'm honestly going to let the shop air out for at least 3 or 4 days before I go back there. Does the cement continue to off-gas for an extended period of time after the intial bonding? Wouldn't surprise me.

Thanks again,

Mike

[Mike]

Tom Watson replied in message

Tom, I respectfully disagree. The flammable solvent based product has it's place in a commercial production environment where precautions can be taken. Hence the various formulations fine tuned to the job. For the small cabinet shop, subcontractor or homeowner it's a no brainer, the water based stuff wins hands down. There are no air quality problems or fire hazard, important considerations on a jobsite with other workers or in a home/remodel. Application is easier and less is needed. I find the initial bond to be fine and haven't had a delamination problem in 15-20 years. The initial glue setup is very slightly slower but the working open time is longer. The only time I've ever had a problem with stick down is with the nasty stuff and not getting it down before the glue had become too dry. I learned to wet the glue surface with lacquer thinner to revitalize it on hot dry days if left open too long before bonding. But then I changed to 3M's

30NF and never looked back. I think some of the bad experiences people had with the water based glue came from people initially trying to use it just like they did the old stuff. It's enough different that it takes a little getting used to. Do yourself and those around you a favor and give it another try. There are only a few diehards left around here who still use the bad stuff.

Mike

[Andy Dingley]

Or leatherworkers. I use Evostick 528, which is a traditional "neoprene and petroleum" solution. Although I've seen the water based stuff work for some wood-wood veneering tasks, I've never seen it work for leather (like a desk skiver), or work especially well for Formica-like Melamine laminates.

And for veneering, I still prefer the very traditional hot hide glue. The purpose of a contact cement is to have something that has low viscosity when applied and high tack in use. Hide glue gives you this, sets well when it cools down a few minutes later, yet has a useful amount of thixotropic behaviour to let you slide it around when first laid down.

There used to be a petroleum based adhesive from Evostick called Thixofix that also allowed some adjustment. Haven't seen it in years though.

-- Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods

[BUB 209]

I would be sold on the waterproof stuff if you'd be willing to give me a tour of all the projects you've done "over the years" to see how well everything's held up. Seriously though, you don't get callbacks for delamination?

[Phisherman]

I have a bottle of Elmer's rubber glue that is water-based. Easy to use, but like most contact cement there is a waiting period of 20 minutes. It works great, but don't spill it on any fabric because it will not wash out. Super for applying a pattern to do bandsaw work.

[Tom Watson]

Fair enough. When I have some time I'll get a quart and try it out. The last time I tried it was about five years ago and the results were bad.

I'd like to switch over to water based spray finishes too, but the last time I tried them they weren't up to the job.

My guess is that most of the the high VOC stuff will be legislated out of existence one of these days in any case and we'll all just have to make do with whatever the industrial chemist fellas can come up with.

Regards, Tom Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania

[Mike]

Well, laminate counter tops is one of the things I do for a living so if you want the tour, better set aside a few months :>) Zero callbacks for delamination using the waterbased stuff. I did have a couple of problems using the nasty stuff before i switched. See post above for the reasons. The only problems I've had are usually things beyond my control e.g. the cabinets shrinking down away from the backsplash in new construction.

Mike

[Bay Area Dave]

how are you applying it Mike? spray or roll? If spray, what rig and tip? TIA

dave

Mike wrote:

[Mike]

It (high VOC) already isn't economical if a small shop were to install the required air scrubbers etc. I don't like to stink up the neighborhood with pre cat but so far I haven't found anything to match it for ease of application, price, time and resulting finish quality. The best of the water based products I've found is the Enduro. Still, it is expensive, gums up sandpaper and won't blend out the holidays in the preceeding coat without some hand work. If you know anything better let me know.

Mike.

[Bob Bowles]