Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)

Feb 09, 2013 48 Replies

This is not really a woodworking question, but I figure someone here can answer it.



My Dad is 92 and needs to grab onto things to climb the stairs. But for a short section of the stairway in their house, there's no sensible thing to grab.



Their house is plaster on lath if memory serves. Wood strips, I think, not wire. [This is an ancient memory. My parents had a larger closet made when I was a very young boy and I was allowed to bash away at the plaster for a little while. I remember being disappointed when I came back from school and found that the rest of the demolition had already been completed. ]



Anyway, I have no experience finding studs in that kind of construction. The walls are too rigid for me to just sound them out with my fist. I don't own a stud finder, but I might buy one if it's of any use in that kind of wall. I'm not eager to drill a series of holes that I'll need to repair, and then match the paint. If it comes down to it, I suppose I could remove the base molding and drill holes at the bottom of the wall, but the molding is finished oak, and a little complicated, and would be very hard to replace if an oaf like me were to damage it.



Suggestions? I imagine I'd use oak railing parts from the Borg, by the way.


Tough to do with an inexpensive stud finder or other inexpensive electronics, and even Leon's favorite earth magnet trick won't work with some of the lath behind plaster walls.

The only way we've been successful is to start on a corner, measure the usual 16 OC, then pray/sound with a 1/16" drill bit ... small enough to cover up with a close match of putty.

IME, and no matter how much you spend on a Borg stud finder for a plaster wall, you end up doing that anyway.

Know anyone with a ground penetrating radar unit? Call the Feds and tell them you "think" you might have a lead on Jimmy Hoffa.

Seriously, two things to consider:

1) Use heavy duty Molly anchors. Drill a pilot for them first and if if you hit a stud, shift gears and start measuring for the rest of them.

2) stay with the Molly's if you don't hit a stud first thing, if you eventually hit one, just switch gears for THAT mount.

3) Go down to the Borg and buy a Zircon Stud Finder. Not the most expensive one, but not the cheapest either. I had their original one, a black thing with LED's that looked like a TV remote. Didn't work all that well. Took another bite of the apple several years later and got one that cost me about $20 - $25 and love it. WTH, if it doesn't work out, you can always return it for a refund, right?

Could you possibly get on top of the wall, from the attic, and locate the studs from the nails in the top plate?

Don't suppose you know how regular the wall stud spacings are, even, do you? Sometimes in those old houses they're as regular as a Swiss watch; sometimes not so much...if they are regular and there's a good corner at one end from which to measure, you've got a reasonable chance.

I've not used one so can't say firsthand but reviews of some of the better (as in higher-$$) Zircon and Bosch sounders worked reasonably well w/ plaster walls in a Fine Homebuilding review -- not sure otomh which issue; think it was about first of maybe 2011 based on a quick view of comments...

There are those who say the rare-earth magnet "StudTHUD" is supposed to be the cat's meow...

I've not further info other than that on it, though...

One thing is that if the plaster is in good shape on a wood lath paster wall you can use a moly bolt and by getting across and behind the lath it'll be very strong even if you do miss a stud...

OK. Was 16" "standard" before there was sheetrock? (and yes, I'm aware that even if it was, I might not find that spacing) The house was built in 1939, I think. My house has plaster walls as well, but over "plasterboard"; like sheetrock, but with a grid of holes for the plaster to grab onto. Their house is just plaster on lath.

ALTERNATIBELY, Drill lots of holes to find your studs in a straight line even with where the rail will go.

Cover all of those holes up with a 1x4 piece of wood to match the hand rail, anchoring it to the studs you found. Mount your hand rail to the board you just used to cover the holes.

Ah, the voice of experience :)

I'd like it to be VERY strong. He doesn't just steady himself on the railing, he practically seems to pull himself up the stairs. I'll feel better, if nothing else, if I get the brackets into the studs.

Depends ... 16" OC, for a 2x4 studs in platform framed is "standard" in most codes dating far back; 24"OC is "standard" for 2x6 studs.

If the house is two story, and has balloon framing, which is not uncommon in houses of that vintage, you may find it closer to the latter (24").

I can tell you one thing ... you will not be happy with ANY stud finder you can buy at a BORG. End of Story

If you have to get destructive to anchor that thing for your Dad's safety, which is of paramount importance, Leon's suggestion about using a trim board behind the hand rail is excellent advice.

But still anchor the handrail brackets to the studs in as many locations as you can.

Just a question of interest. Using sensitive thermal imaging equipment could you find the stud by the difference in temperature between the wall over the between studs and the wall over the studs?

Only if there is a differntial in temperature between the outside wall and inside wall.

IOW, in interior walls, IME, it will not show studs. BTDT

If there is no insulation in the wall cavity, I've had luck with the follow ing procedure: Drill a 1/8" hole, bend a coat wire into two 90° angles (z shaped), inser t one leg into the hole and rotate the wire. When you hit a stud, the oute r identical leg, will show you where the edge of the stud is located. May require more than one hole.

Ivan Vegvary

What's on the other side of that wall? Perchance a closet or hidden area behind a bed so that you can explore for a couple of studs and transfer your measurements to the other side.

Can you get under the stairway to check for where the support is nailed?

It will work, if one places a couple 500 watt flood lights (work lights) on one side. I've had the city engineer look at my walls for plumbing issues, using the same thermal imager now carried by most fire & police depts.

The city here carries an insurance policy on lateral sewer drain repairs which is charged in property taxes and thermal imaging is a very important means of assessing damage.

Better plumbing companies are now using thermal imaging to trace out hidden and below grade lines by simply running hot/cold water. But of course, there are always divining (dowsing) rods an sech! :-)

Thinking a little outside the box.... Think about supports that come off floor flanges, instead of the wall.

formatting link

[snip]

Damn! You go, G.W.

Somebody build another box, so G.W. can think outside of it.

Two good suggestions! That's why I love this group. There ALWAYS seems to be another way to do something and, if there is, you'll read it here.

...

...

Well, you can always go to a rail board and then it can cover any unwanted holes made to find the actual stud locations.

Join the Discussion

Have something to add? Share your thoughts — no account required.

Didn't find your answer?

Ask the community — no account required