Advice before I put on riser block? (Coplanar attempt too...)

read every word. let's just agree to disagree.

dave

Michael Daly wrote:

Reply to
Bay Area Dave
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Half and half, I'd say. But two things are certain: I'm amazed I ever lived through it, and I can't believe the shit our neighborhood kids got away with.

The bombs and zips, BTW, were not for city trouble, we just blew 'em up and shot them in the desert for fun. The point being that my backyard engineering experience has taught me well enough when to fear and when not to. I can manage tweaking a BS....

H
Reply to
Hylourgos

Care to recommend your's?

UA100

Reply to
Unisaw A100

I think what's missing from the formula that's making up the sum (Hey! Math talk!) is that the band is riding the crown which means it's traveling under no more stress with coplanar as than without.

UA100

Reply to
Unisaw A100

Michael Daly:

Well I'll be damned. It must be true. I mean, look up, there it is.

UA100

Reply to
Unisaw A100

For what its worth: take readings on the pins with a caliper or micrometer once you separate the top casting from the bottom casting in preparation for adding the riser block. You may find the top of the protruding pin to be smaller than the base of the pin. Drilling at this point will reduce your saw to two very inefficient boat anchors. Taper pins are sometimes used to insure precision fit on castings. I added a riser block to a Rockwell 14 incher a few years back. The Rockwell did indeed use taper pins for locating the top casting relative to the bottom casting. No slop, no play, and no adjustment possible.

You might want to take time to pose this question over on rec.crafts.metalworking before you get the drill out and take the chance of making a very expensive mistake.

Dan "Eccentric by Nature"

Reply to
Dan

3/8" seems a tad excessive.

Is the sucker running without any "slap", now.

You need to be at least a half-assed farm mechanic to set up some of these Chiwanese kit saws - and even the Delta that most of them are perversed-enginineered from.

Bandsaws are funny critters. They aren't available to the rectilinear tuneup stuff that you can do with a tablesaw. The whole deal is to wind up with a blade that will track well (or, at least predictably) under working tension. This can vary according to the parallelism of the wheels, the condition of the tires (tyres, Mike Hide), the width of the blade, the tension used on the blade for the type (tipe, bad), the kind of metal layup that is used for the blade, and the phase of the moon.

I once got excited about getting the blade to run without any side to side motion. I set the wheels up dead perfect under no load. I put in a 1/4" blade and cranked the tension up to that for a 3/4" blade (according to the pissant scale on the saw), and then cut with it. It cut fine and dandy for what I was doing.

Then I put a 3/4" resaw blade in it and it cut fine and dandy too, after I cranked up the tension a little bit - prior to that it wandered around.

Being a curious sort, I thought to get out my old timing light (saved from the days that I could still tune my own ride) and darkened the shop, so I could see what the blade travel looked like under the disco light.

Well, that were not pretty. The pulsing light showed a good deal of side to side travel on the blade - but the blade cut fine.

Fuggit. I put the disco light away and cut my stuff.

All I know is that you need to get the wheels moderately parallel and adjust your blade tension to the size of the blade. If the saw doesn't sound right, or cut right - you mess with the angle adjustment of the top wheel until it does.

If you run out of options - buy a Laguna - I hear they're real nice right ought of the box.

Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret) Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet Website:

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Reply to
Tom Watson

Disagree on what? Your comments had absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote!

Mike

Reply to
Michael Daly

Can't. I drove him crazy already. He's now locked up in a state mental ward.

dave

Unisaw A100 wrote:

Reply to
Bay Area Dave

that's why I continue to disagree with your assessment of a "problem". NOW do you get it, Michael?? ") Nice try though and as someone more profound that myself has said many times, "thanks for playing". NOW can we drop this non-argument? 'Cause if YOU don't drop it, you'll be arguing with yourself next.

dave

Michael Daly wrote:

Reply to
Bay Area Dave

I make no such assumption. The blade will ride on the part of the tire that allows it to come into equilibrium with the forces on it. But unless the curvature of the tire match _exactly_ to the degree of out-of-plane, the blade will be twisted.

I'm talking about stress on the blade.

Imaging someone telling you that a frame in a car doesn't have to be straight. They drive around with a bent frame and think everything is fine. They say the auto engineers don't know anything about cars and body shops that straighten frames are ripping people off. Does that make it ok to have a bent car frame? Is that in turn the same as saying that no one should have a straight frame?

Just because you can make it work, doesn't mean that it's all right. I like to see things running square and true. You can true your equipment with a sledge hammer for all I care, but don't tell me it's right. It's not like aligning the bandsaw wheels is a big deal - it takes a few minutes. If you have that much trouble with it, are you sure this is the hobby for you?

If out of plane is ok, how much is ok? 1/4"? 1/2"? 2"? 10"? Let's hear some facts about this out-of-plane acceptability.

Mike

Reply to
Michael Daly

I can tell you aren't into empirical testing, are you Michael? Instead of using JUST logic, you should do some TESTING of your hypothesis. Then you would undoubtedly change your tune.

dave

Michael Daly wrote:

Reply to
Bay Area Dave

Or the tire will flex to match the blade.

I'm not saying no one SHOULD have coplaner, but you don't necessarily HAVE to have it to be operating properly. Plenty of cars on the road do have frames not aligned.

I don't know as I've not done any testing. My saw seems to be very close and hte blade tracks just fine so I'm not going to change anything, nor will I do any more checks of it unless a problem occurs. What I am interested in is a perfect cut. As long as I get that, the rest is just a bother. Ed

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

DAGS on this ng and you'll likely find a coupla posts where I explained my tests.

Change my tune? To what? Any old bandsaw adjustment is ok and who cares?

Mike

Reply to
Michael Daly

My band saw (see short write up here)

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out but despite this it tracks fine. Being that it is tracking fine I elected to leave well enough alone.

I'm unsure where this analogy came from. I saw a request for opinions and responded. The next thing I know you're flashing a zip gun around and boasting about pipe bombs.

Grandma always told me, "Kee-Kee honey, never argue with an FGN". Of course grandma had a way with words and didn't initialize.

UA100

Reply to
Unisaw A100

You must have awfully mushy tires. I can barely see any deflection in the surface of mine. They're crowned, but kinda flat (i.e. long-radius curvature) too. Behavior with a 1/4" blade will be very different than that of a 3/4". I put more faith in coplanar than in some undefined capacity of the tires to fix any potential stress problems in a blade that's running at over 10,000psi and a couple of thousand feet per minute!

I read somewhere that engineers keep their cars in better condition than the average driver. I wonder why? I'm an engineer and I tend to prefer to keep things set up well and running well. But then I don't have unlimited faith in the materials we use in our world.

Every time this comes up, the guys that say it's unimportant eventually admit that they have a BS that's fairly true or is a high-end model that's quite true out of the factory. But the guys asking the questions about coplanar have the chiwanese quasijunk that is way out of adjustment and performs accordingly.

Open question remains - if out of plane is acceptable, what are its limits? If no one can answer that with a realistic answer, then I'll stick with the folks like Duginske who actually know what they're talking about.

Mike

Reply to
Michael Daly

Most tires are a rubber compound. Rubber compounds are usually designed to deflect or move in some manner or they would just use steel or aluminum. Must be a reason. As an engineer, you know that.

Junk is junk no matter how it is adjusted. Thee is more at work there than just co-planer.

Nothing wrong wit co-planer or any adjustments being as good as possible. There is a point where it just becomes too anal. I'm not knocking Duginske (I have his book) but I've also seen the work Phillips has done. Ed snipped-for-privacy@snet.net

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Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

Thanks Dan, that's exactly the kind of warning I'm looking for.

Regards, H.

Reply to
Hylourgos

I'm not saying that one should not carefully adjust the guides and set the blade to track near the center of the top wheel, but the coplanar "thing" is really much ado about nothing. The wheels of my Powermatic are about 1/16" out of being perfectly aligned, when under tension for a 5/8" blade. The blade runs true, quietly, and cuts fine. When I shim the upper wheel so that it is truly coplanar while under tension, then the blade doesn't track nearly as well due to the slight tilt of the upper wheel. I see no gain in messing with the factory set-up of the BS. I DO pay VERY particular attention to setting the Carter guides "by the book", so to speak. And all is well with my bandsawing operations... To suggest that I am not picky about setting up my equipment is a laugher.

dave

Michael Daly wrote:

Reply to
Bay Area Dave

I'm glad you asked me that. I had measured, but it was not careful. I went back out just now and reinstalled the top wheel. Where I had left the top wheel tilt adjustment was, I just now noticed, not on a parallel plane with the lower wheel. Once I did that and remeasured, more carefully this time, it was just a whisker under 1/8".

So thanks for the scepticism, it saved me some grief.

Good advice. I'll see if I can't get this girl working right. If not, time to start a new piggy bank.

Thanks, H

Reply to
Hylourgos

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