Wireless

Just in case anyone is interested, there is a vote being held regarding the creation of a new group, uk.radio.amateur.moderated. Some say (I among them) that the existing unmoderated group uk.radio.amateur is not fit for purpose. I urge any DIYers with an interest in amateur radio to consider casting their vote for the creation of u.r.a.moderated. The second Call For Votes is in uk.net.news.config:-

Subject: 2nd CFV - Create moderated newsgroup uk.radio.amateur.moderated Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 22:19:38 +0000 Message-ID: Please vote!

Reply to
Stork
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Given that there's already a rec.radio.amateur.moderated that not wildly busy, do you really think that there would be enough traffic to justify a UK specific one?

Just curious.

Tim

Reply to
Tim+

I don't understand the concept of moderation as applied to usenet? Messages posted go straight out to the news servers with no option for anyone to intercept/accept/reject posts.

Surely the way to have a moderated discussion group is via an internet forum using the various software packages. I run a couple on Yahoo and that software is crap and deffo not a way to go if that is being considered.

Reply to
Bob Minchin

But you can't deny the existence of moderated Usenet groups surely?

Try posting to uk.legal.moderated and see how long you have to wait for your message to appear. I think you'll find that they don't go straight out without moderator approval.

Tim

Reply to
Tim+

The self righteous tin God moderators killed the cycling discussion even though it seemed that many people wished to carry on with it. This was because that many of the mods are cyclists and did not like the criticism that cyclists were getting. They allow a well known fruitcake to cleverly troll that group. They are not fit of porpoise.

Reply to
Mr Pounder Esquire

OK fair enough Tim - I've led a sheltered life and never come across a moderated NG - my problem.

Reply to
Bob Minchin

My first credit card was Goldfish. Paid for by my employer.

1999 or something.
Reply to
Mr Pounder Esquire

Stork scribbled

It's a piece of piss to set up a private news server. Saves all this begging with news config to set up a new group.

Reply to
Jonno

Not if the group is a moderated group. Posts get sent via a moderation system first before going out onto the wider Usenet. Posts may be either manually moderated - so there will be a delay or automatically moderated (if a poster is whitelisted) and go straight out.

It's another way.

Reply to
Chris French

How to vote multiple times in the uk.* hierarchy - a step-by-step guide.

  1. Prepare in advance.

You are going to set up multiple identities, and each one must have enough substance that the vote-taker (hereinafter VT) will take them as coming from a different person. It's possible that despite your precautions the VT will rumble one or more of your votes as being invalid, so if you plan on voting, say, ten times, set up a few extra identities.

Each identity must have an email address that is different, and it must be one at which you can both send and receive email. Further, the emails you send must NOT have anything in their headers which can be matched to another address. The simplest way to achieve this is to use a web-based email, but even so you must do a bit of checking first.

To check, what you do is send yourself an email from the new address. You need to send all your test emails to an address which will show you ALL the "headers" - this is where extra tracking information is added to your email. You may need to figure out how to get your email client to show them to you as they are usually hidden. The, open each one and look at the headers (your web-based email provider should have a link or preference setting that says something like "show headers" or "show original"). You are looking for two Bad Things:

a) an IP address (something like 80.254.146.36) which matches what you are using; and b) a path which is sufficiently detailed to show that the emails came from the same computer (yours).

If a) shows, you can only get (safely) one ballot via that email address.

a) Is less of a worry if your IP changes (many dial-up accounts will be like this - when you connect to the interweb, it can be through any of a number of different IPs that your provider has available. To find out what your IP is, there are many services on the web that will tell you (just googling "whats my IP" works). Every time you start to set up a new email address, check this first and write it down.

b) The path will be in the Received: header(s). Look at them ALL for your IP, and if you are setting up more than one email from the same provider at (about) the same time, copy the headers and compare them. It may be that they are the same - if so, send yourself more email a little later and check. Providers may have multiple possible paths (multiple mail servers) and if you get a different path the next time that is a Good Thing. Even if the path is the same, you can try using the email, as of course if yours is the same many others from other legitimate users could also have that path. In this case all you need do is avoid being stupid (see below) when requesting ballots.

Once you have a set of working, untraceable emails you will need some supporting usenet histories. For each email choose a few newsgroups, groups in which you already post, or perhaps have some knowledge/interest, and if possible close to but not necessarily matching the group for which you expect a relevant vote.

For posting, get a free account at aioe.org or eternal-september.org or any of a number of free newservers (google will help you find others). It is ok to get multiple accounts at the same newserver, each tied to one of your new email addresses - but if you like, spread them around a bit. Check the privacy policy to make sure that the operator won't give out your email or logs without a court order; although I happen to know this can be done it is a tremendous amount of work and stress, and the VT is very unlikely, perhaps even unable (for an off-shore based server) to want to go through this even once.

Next you need a newsreader, preferably more than one. Many newsreaders are free, or have free versions, and if you can have several it will help cloak who you are. Good ones will allow "profiles" or something similar in which you can set the name and reply-to email, and you can use those to keep all the posting names and newsgroups matched up (but a sheet of A4 with notes made as you go is still probably a good idea). More than one is a Good Thing because newsreaders add headers with various things - version, organization, and so on, if these are all the same because you use the same reader it could attract the attention of the VT.

MAKE A TEST POST FIRST. Pick an innocuous group (I use uk.rec.gardening) and post something innocent and mildly worthy of reply (for example, do not use "test" as your subject). Replying to an existing thread is better than starting one - you'll be less noticeable. You want something to which others can reply without a "who-the-hell-are-you" comment (a dead-giveaway), and one which you can examine the headers. Your newsreader will have some sort of option to "show all headers", and what you are looking for is the same sort of identifying information that you checked for in the email headers. If, for instance, there is an "NNTP-Posting-Host" header and your IP (as determined above) does not change you can only use this news-server for one identity.

If your test post shows no problems, go ahead and start posting - not too much, and not all at once. What you want to to is simulate someone who is new to usenet, getting involved gradually, and slowly getting closer to the topic/newsgroup where you expect the vote to focus. It is not actually necessary to post in order to get a ballot sent when the Call For Votes occurs, but doing so is better because it will attract less attention from the VT. Try to assume a different personality for each identity - make some consistent speeling erorrs, or use different stock phrases, or make a reference to different locales as being where you live, and so on. Keep track or who says what in which way from where, and be consistent within each identity.

  1. The RFD.

There will be an Request For Discussion (RDF) first, perhaps more than one. This part of the process starts in uk.net.news.announce, so monitor that. When the discussion starts, don't join in all at once with all of your identities. If you have an identity that has shown absolutely no interest in the group/topic before, you may be better off not contributing at all with that identity. With those identities who do participate, feel free to disagree with others, each other, and even about which way you intend to vote. Carried well, you can even announce that you've changed you mind as a result of some particularly (un)persuasive point another poster (yourself? who knows?) has made.

  1. The CFV.

After a while there will be a Call For Votes - actually two. When that happens, start asking for ballots. Do this gradually, the CFV takes some time and if you spread your requests over this period it will be less noticeable. The requests likely follow a U-shaped curve, so a few early, some in the middle and the remainder nearer the end of the period will blend in better. If the VT emails you asking for extra details, DO NOT REPLY. You've been rumbled, and trying to fix it is not worth it. The VT will probably expect a few to try it on, so let him think he has found one. A cat with a dead mouse may not be so eager to try to catch another, and you will have allowed for this eventuality by making extra identities, no?

After you get your ballot, don't always send it right back. If possible, make your response time match your assumed identity's personality - strident campaigners know right away how they will vote, and lurkers may leave it until the last minute.

  1. The results.

Be patient. The calculation of the results of one recent vote took from early August to late September, so do not expect anything to happen quickly. There is nothing you can do at this point anyway to affect the results directly, but it is probably a good idea to keep posting from the various identities (excepting any that the VT has spotted) so that questions from others of the form "Who is " when they see the results can be avoided.

  1. Should you worry?

No.

There is nothing legally wrong with doing any of the above.

There is nothing the VT can easily (or even likely) do (assuming you have been sufficiently careful) to be sure any email is not genuine; although they mutter sometimes about secret ways to check it's all just TV-detector-van mumbo-jumbo - they have no extra powers to demand logs etcetera from ISP or news-servers and all they have to go on is the same stuff you check for.

There is nothing morally wrong with any of the above either - after all, it's only Usenet, no-one dies; you want what you want, and...

...rest assured, the other side *is* doing this already.

Reply to
Judith

Judith scribbled

Pretty much confirms what some have been thinking about 'eric'

Reply to
Jonno

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