Will the chancellor cane house owners in the budget?

[Mike Mitchell]

At least you can see that almost permanent grin on his face. God only knows (or maybe even He doesn't) what the little R's arse looks like.

MM

[Mike Mitchell]

Billions of pounds, they are all going to come and live in your street and you are the one person who will pay for it all.

Life's so unfair, ain't it just!

MM

[IMM]

Quality? Total "rip off" treatment. It is extortion.

[PoP]

If that's your wish don't let me obstruct the view ;)

PoP

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apologise for the additional effort, however the level of unsolicited email I receive makes it impossible to advertise my real email address!

[Andy Hall]

Have you used private dental care?

I'm happy with mine.

.andy

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[Andy Hall]

It does vary, but I had found that NHS treatment in early life had left a legacy of poor quality restorative work.

Over a period of several years, as replacement fillings were needed, they were done privately with much more time and effort being taken and better materials being used.

I have required a couple of gold crowns in recent years and these are an expensive proposition. On the other hand, to do the job properly can be several hours of work so that is understandable.

With that all done, I have had a very stable situation for several years. The focus is on care around teeth and keeping gums in good order because after the age of about 40, more teeth are lost via gum problems than by tooth decay itself.

I've found that nowadays it's unusual if the cost of my dental treatment for a year, including hygienist visits etc. exceeds £200. I consider that a worthwhile investment.

There are always different options and some are more expensive than others. However, to establish a good and stable situation does not necessarily have to involve complex treatments.

Fine, and that's a reasonable aim.. It doesn't look as though the NHS is going to deliver that, though.

No it shouldn't, but all the time that provision is attempted through a megalithic bureaucracy it won't be. There is too much money collected on the way in and too little delivered at point of use.

Dentists have cut back NHS work en masse because it does not provision sufficiently to do a proper job, and they can't make a decent living.

.andy

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[geoff]

In message , PoP writes

What US economy ?

It's only the fact that oil is priced in dollars which is keeping it afloat

[Huge]

Me too. My dentist changed over some years ago, and to be frank, I haven't noticed the difference.

[IMM]

Yes.

Ignorance is bliss. I hunt out NHS dentists.

[Andy Hall]

Nothing can be added to that......

.andy

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[PoP]

The following is my true story.

When I was young I did not care properly for my teeth, and I'm rather surprised that airport metal detectors don't indicate to the staff that maybe the surgical gloves might need to be brought into operation....

When I eventually started going to a dentist regularly it was an NHS dentist. I stayed with him for about 15 years or so, feeling that I was getting good treatment.

Eventually I moved to the midlands for a couple of years. I got toothache and went along to the local NHS dentist. He immediately told me I needed a couple of crowns fitted, and my contribution needed to be some £250+. I let him fix my filling which was giving me a hard time, and never went back to him.

I moved back down south and my family signed up with an NHS dentist. Along I went, expecting the worst. Apparently I didn't need crowns at all, but I could have them fitted if I wanted (sure....).

For practical reasons we changed to another NHS dentist after a couple of years because one opened up in our locality. I've had a couple of fillings since being there but nothing serious.

Last year that dentist became private and we were given the choice of finding another dentist or going private. We chose the latter.

Now having jumped the fence I am a lot happier with the quality of care I'm getting. The dentist really does seem to care about looking after my teeth, I'm not just another on the production line. The cost to me is not significantly different to what we had to pay under the NHS (though it would be if we needed anything substantial).

So bottom line is that I'm very happy with private dentistry. I was frogmarched into this rather than go by choice - but it has worked out very well. I see no reason to go back to the NHS.

PoP

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apologise for the additional effort, however the level of unsolicited email I receive makes it impossible to advertise my real email address!

[PoP]

Oh I dunno. I can think of one or two quips.... ;)

PoP

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apologise for the additional effort, however the level of unsolicited email I receive makes it impossible to advertise my real email address!

[Mike Mitchell]

I can vouch for that! Here there is no NHS dentist. There is only a private dentist. Last year I paid £320 for root canal work on ONE tooth! Last week I had an esitmate for the repair of one filling (not the same tooth) in a 30-minute appointment: £60! Sixty quid just to

*repair* a filling! The dentist now has a price list on the wall, and some of the prices would frighten off most people from ever going anywhere near a dentist again. Oh, the hygenist costs £40 for a descaling, i.e. about 20 minutes' work.

Rip-off, extortion, thoroughly unsupportable in the so-called fourth-richest nation. Utterly ludicrous. Unlike that brave old Lady from Devon however, we cannot refuse to pay when our teeth hurt. Usurious private dentistry is taking advantage of pain. There is a word for that, I believe.

MM

[Mike Mitchell]

That's because you can afford it. No wonder Thatcher said there's no such thing as society.

MM

[Neil Jones]

So what would a fair price have been, in your opinion?

Neil

[Mike Mitchell]

What were you thinking of! Now clean your teeth immediately!

MM

[Huge]

[40 lines snipped]

Me neither, and I'm perfectly happy with my private dentist.

The objection I have is that the State still collects the taxes to pay for NHS dentistry, but cannot provide it.

In the same way they collect taxes to pay for police whose principal function is now revenue collection, schools that do not educate (or provide school trips - how dare they say they are 'in loco parentis', prosecute parents who fail to send their children, then refuse to act 'in loco parentis'?)

[Owain]

"Andy Hall" wrote | "Owain" wrote: | >| If people take care of their teeth properly, the ongoing costs | >| are not excessive at all. | >If people have good teeth to start off with. | It does vary, but I had found that NHS treatment in early life had | left a legacy of poor quality restorative work.

Yes, that's why I think the NHS should keep my teeth sorted out; they made them what they are.

Dentists are paid a flat per annum rate for children, the idea is this will encourage dentists to do preventative care so that expensive treatments are not needed. Although dentists now concentrate on preserving natural teeth, when faced with a nervous child patient and the dentist knows the patient and family history is such that dental health will deteriorate again anyway, extraction of deciduous teeth is a quick (for the dentist and the patient) and cheap treatment, especially in the days when dentists could use general anaesthesia for extractions. It also fosters a culture that the quick cure for dental problems is extraction. The problem is that if deciduous teeth are extracted the sockets are not properly formed in the jaw and the permanent teeth can then grow squint.

| Over a period of several years, as replacement fillings were needed, | they were done privately with much more time and effort being taken | and better materials being used.

Unless you want non-amalgam fillings for appearance or particular health concerns, the materials shoudl be the same. However the main criterion of success and longevity of a filling is preparation of the cavity, particularly dryness. The more time a dentist can take over this, the better the filling will be. If you can get private dentistry fairly cheaply it might actually work out cheaper than continual NHS renewal.

Owain

[Andy Hall]

It's a matter of priorities. My parents are both OAPs and are far from being well off. They feel that medical and especially dental care are important and also go for private dental care, sacrificing other things.

To put a huge bureaucracy in between payment for and delivery of this type of service adds no value at all. It's far easier and more efficient for the patient to deal directly with the practitioner and if there is an issue of financing it, for the patient to receive a voucher from the government to cover all or part of the cost.

.andy

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[Andy Hall]

That price is very low considering the amount of skill and effort to do a root canal treatment properly. How long did the work take and how many visits?

That is also quite low. This isn't a hack job with Polyfilla. The old material has to be carefully removed without removing healthy tooth material unnecessarily; various materials, which are not cheap are required to complete the job and shaping to achieve correct bite has to be done. Not trivial work if done properly.

On top of this, the dentist has to pay for his equipment, a nurse, the rent, the insurance,...... in the context of that £60 is not at all expensive.

That's perfectly reasonable as well.

The rip off here is that you are expecting something for nothing.

Having an enormous bureaucracy to deliver what can be done perfectly simply between patient and practitioner is what is unsupportable.

.andy

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