Wiki: Pattress

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember [e-mail] saying something like:

I see what you're getting at, but the pattress has always been just the wooden plate and the term 'pattress box' refers only to the surface box that would screw onto it. Lazy diction has led to a generation simply calling them patresses, missing the 'box' off - this may be worse in some parts of the country than others. Best to stick with the proper, traditional terms - damnit, we need standards these days.

[Cicero]

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[Andy Wade]

There was an intermediate step between the wooden pattress and the modern surface mounting box.

Originally wiring accessories for surface mounting had terminals open at the back and were screwed to the wooden pattress. When the wiring regs introduced the requirement for all connections to be enclosed in fireproof material (12th or 13th edition?) many manufacturers introduced moulded mounting plates (aka back plates or pattresses) that could be used either on a wooden pattress or directly on a wall. Thus the wooden pattress started to disappear. The next step was the introduction of the surface mounting box as we now know it, enabling 'flush-mount' wiring accessories to be surface mounted.

I guess this is how common use of the term pattress passed from the wooden item to the surface mounting (pattress) box. There's no such continuity with flush mount wiring accessories and their metal back boxes, which were in use before the wooden pattress disappeared. That's why using pattress to refer to flush mounting boxes only confuses the issue and is quite wrong, IMHO.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Which would be fine for a regional FAQ. But unfortunately it's national and in other areas it's not used.

[The Medway Handyman]

Perhaps we should use the terms in the Screwfix catalouge/web site? They are national and seem to be becoming the modern day 'Bucks Book' if anyone remembers that?

Yonks ago I was in the tool trade & customers would call asking for all sorts of stuff. If there was any doubt they would refer to page so and so in the Bucks Book. Everybody seemed to have one, even if they never bought from Buck & Hickman.

We use the SF site like that here.

[meow2222]

The other terms are no more or less regional than pattress.

NT

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Perhaps you could tell me of a regional supplier's website where they talk about pattresses as backing boxes?

And I'd be most surprised if any wholesaler in the land didn't understand a 'flush metal 35mm two gang backing box'

[Dave Liquorice]

Not a bad idea, they use "Mounting Box" as the generic title to cover steel and drylining flush boxes under Home > Electrical > Switches & Sockets > Mounting Boxes.

But surface boxes are lumped in amongst all the bits in Home > Electrical

[Tanner-'op]

Dave,

Before retiring, I worked in several parts of the country over several years - and on each job, a patress was... yes, a patress - which meant a surface mounted switch/socket box (and that was understood by the local tradesmen as well as us 'outsiders'. That seems pretty "national" to me.

As for the standard of the "Wiki" write-up on that subject (and many others) I will pass no comment.

Tanner-'op

[Owain]

1930s works on electrical wiring have it as 'pateras' and use it to describe the wooden circular or rectangular block on which the accessory was fixed.

Owain

[Owain]

At one time, wooden boxes were used for flush mounting accessories, as well as for the construction of surface fuse boxes and the like.

Owain

[meow2222]

'Pattress supplier' gives 3760 hits. 'Pattress' gives 29,800.

Indeed. I'd also be most surprised if any wholesaler in the land didn't understand a 'flush metal 35mm two gang pattress'

I know it would be easy if all suppliers used one term, but they dont. The Wiki can easily reflect that by using all the common terms.

NT

[Dave Liquorice]

Ah but the wiki entry refers to flush as well as surface mount boxen...

[Dave Plowman (News)]

It's not recognised in any wholesaler I've used in London - and that's plenty. Of course if you add plenty of description a decent counter person may deduce what you mean - but many get annoyed by the use of it.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Andy Wade saying something like:

Hah. I've come across some of those in in ancient installations. Another common one here are Bakelite cover / ceramic body incomer 2P switches on a distribution board. Still plenty of them in use here and were still being fitted in the late 60s - although I think in those cases it was the spark using new old stock to use it up.

[meow2222]

Did you ask them for a pattress? If not, how would you know.

Its also not hard to find counter staff that dont know what youre asking for because they've never been in the business themselves, and know nothing beyond what the catalogue says.

None of this establishes anything germaine.

NT

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I did when I first arrived in London to be met with blank looks. The term was/is in use in Aberdeen, my home town. I subsequently brought up the subject with both pro electricians and a pal who has been in the wholesaling game all his life and probably knows more about it than most. Of course he had heard the term and referred to it as 'northern'.

So therefore in an FAQ it's best not to use jargon. Use a term which is universally understood. You can continue to call it a humgrommet or whatever in private with consenting adults.

There are plenty of examples where jargon varies regionally. And 'shows you up' if you use the wrong term. Which is not what a newbie needs when visiting a wholesaler for the first time.

[Tony Bryer]

It's certainly been used here for 40 years, though my first recollection was to described the moulded round plate that you put under a batten lampholder when not on a fireproof surface (per regs change mentioned here previously)

[meow2222]

So far we've got 3 choices:

1. Pattress - widely used, but as you've pointed out, not universal

1. Backbox - again widely used but not universal, plus there's no shortage of other things it can also mean

2. Electrical accessory wiring box - probably everyone would realise what this is, but its simply too long for a wiki article title. It also appears to cover other items such as junction boxes, and perhaps even small CUs etc, its not an entirely clear name either.

Whichever term we use there will be various references to it in other articles requiring links to this pattress article. Really there is no winner here, there are issues with all 3 options. One plus of 'pattress' is that the history of the word and its DIY uses can be included, both structural and historic electrical, so more information would be there. Another plus, in common with backbox, is its short and sweet.

The issues around the name(s) can be mentioned/discussed in the article so no-one is left in confusion - that would be best whatever title we use.

NT

[Dave Plowman (News)]

What - in electrical terms?