Why we dont use methanol fuel.

[The Natural Philosopher]

[Brian Gaff]

I have not looked at this, but some time ago somebody designed a tiny little generator that ran on methenol for a laptop computer. I don't recall how it produced electricity, but it did work but apparently the gasses it gave off could be toxic. Brian

[Brian Gaff]

I do remember that many years ago. However its a rather extreme example. We do use hydrogen on busses and they seem to think that safe enough with a bus load of passengers in London. Hydrogen burns with an invisible flame most of the time. That is one reason why a small hydrogen fire was not spotted in the old airships until it was far too late of course. Brian

[Brian Reay]

You can buy them to use for caravans/motorhomes/camping etc. I've not looked into how there work- I'm not even sure they use an engine.

Certainly in France they sell petrol 'diluted' with ethanol- the signs say modern cars after a certain date can use it. It is a bit cheaper than straight petrol.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

It's common in the US too.

Large amounts of ethanol are said to cause damage to the fuel system in cars not designed for it. Lots of reports of things like 'rubber' hoses disintegrating.

It's not new - when I were a kid there was a petrol called Cleveland Discol. Claimed to contain alcohol.

[Tim Streater]

AIUI, the Hindenberg deaths were mostly caused by people jumping out of the gondola. They should have stayed in it until it sank down to ground level and jumped out.

[spuorgelgoog]

"the exemption from any tax of alcohol used for mechanical purposes, even t he 8d. per gallon tax on petrol, the idea being to foster as much as possib le the use of home-produced fuels. Thus for every gallon of alcohol fuel ma nufactured, only 75% of it (the alcohol content is roughly 25%) is subject to the 8d. petrol tax."

Owain

[Jethro_uk]

Mythbusters did a bit on that ... testing the myth that the coating of the airship accelerated the fire. It was memorable, as it was one of the few "censored" ones. They wouldn't tell you what chemicals they mixed to make the hypergolic???? mixture.

There was another myth where they didn't tell you what went into making the "thermite" for a myth involving melting ice ....

[Jethro_uk]

FWIW, there is a *lot* of real-science work being done on this. The holy grail being able to directly ferment cellulose (e.g. grass) into ethanol, and thence be able to power ourselves by grass clippings.

The current sticking point is that the chain of biology involved is leisurely at best. My brother was working on supercomputer simulations to try and devise better molecules, but there appears to be some sort of biological "master clock" which limits the rates of reactions. (Interestingly this is the same factor in doctors starting to understand why different people react differently to the same drugs ...)

Annoyingly, it's very hard to get all the water out of ethanol/water due to the boiling point of the mixture being slightly lower than the boiling point of water (96C IIRC). Azoetrope IIRC again ....

[Cursitor Doom]

Still gets used in certain classes of classic motor racing events. I wonder how long that was on fire before anyone realised it? Nasty stuff. :(

[Steve H]

Mk1 MX5s have a fuel tank drain bolt, with a fibre washer.

Mine was fine, until a couple of weeks after we returned from a European tour, during which time we extensively used E10. I lost a whole tank of UK unleaded outside a hotel overnight.

[Huge]

[Jethro_uk]

:)

[Tim Streater]

Annoyingly, it's very hard to get all the water out of ethanol/water due

Isn't the boiling point if ethanol even lower?

[Halmyre]

I remember that; also National Benzole, whose product contained those delightful compounds benzene and toluene.

[Huge]

Indeed. Except that no-one seems to be reading either of them.

[damduck-egg]

In later years the word Benzole quietly dropped off the signs as the petrol became conventional just retaining the word National and the head of Mercury trade mark.

For some reason the brand survives in the Isle Of Wight at a few filling stations.

G.Harman

[Jethro_uk]

suggests not.

[Chris Hogg]

and

[Martin Brown]

Same problem with hydrogen as a fuel too with invisible flames although it is much less likely to poison you than methanol.

My neighbour does have a car that runs off methanol (and a bit of nitro)

- a custom drag racer with a highly tuned 2k horsepower engine. Turns out he is one of the UK's fastest dragster racers.

The clutch is made of titanium with a race certified seal on it.