Where's that Mr Perry , Andy Hall etc ?

What were you saying about bank account details ?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7174760.stm
An article on Clarkson that for once everyone on the list can enjoy!
Clarkson stung after bank prank Jeremy Clarkson found himself unexpectedly donating to charity
TV presenter Jeremy Clarkson has lost money after publishing his bank details in his newspaper column.
The Top Gear host revealed his account numbers after rubbishing the furore over the loss of 25 million people's personal details on two computer discs.
He wanted to prove the story was a fuss about nothing.
But Clarkson admitted he was "wrong" after discovered a reader had used the details to create a 500 direct debit to the charity Diabetes UK. Clarkson published details of his Barclays account in the Sun newspaper, including his account number and sort code. He even told people how to find out his address.
"All you'll be able to do with them is put money into my account. Not take it out. Honestly, I've never known such a palaver about nothing," he told readers.
But he was proved wrong, as the 47-year-old wrote in his Sunday Times column.
"I opened my bank statement this morning to find out that someone has set up a direct debit which automatically takes 500 from my account," he said.
"The bank cannot find out who did this because of the Data Protection Act and they cannot stop it from happening again.
"I was wrong and I have been punished for my mistake."
Police were called in to search for the two discs, which contained the entire database of child benefit claimants and apparently got lost in the post in October 2007.
They were posted from HM Revenue and Customs offices in Tyne and Wear, but never turned up at their destination - the National Audit Office.
The loss, which led to an apology from Prime Minister Gordon Brown, created fears of identity fraud.
Clarkson now says of the case: "Contrary to what I said at the time, we must go after the idiots who lost the discs and stick cocktail sticks in their eyes until they beg for mercy."
--
geoff

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Lots of organisations publish account number and sort code for paying in purposes. Will this stop ? Simon.
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Clarkson won't have a lost a penny due to the direct debit guarantee http://www.bacs.co.uk/BACS/Consumers/Direct+Debit/Your+rights / But of course mentioning this would not have enabled him to have a go at the bank industry and 'PC' legislation.
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Clarkson won't have a lost a penny due to the direct debit guarantee http://www.bacs.co.uk/BACS/Consumers/Direct+Debit/Your+rights / But of course mentioning this would not have enabled him to have a go at the bank industry and 'PC' legislation.
With rights come responsibilities. I think it could be argued that the 'victim' was reckless and lacked responsibility. I hope he doesn't get anything.
mark
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[I don't currently read threads from uk.d-i-y unless they are crossposted somewhere I do read.]
As for this Clarkson episode, as ever what's the risk that people perceive?
There's no permanent loss of funds to Mr Clarkson, nor any funds available to the perpetrator, but a prankster has caused Mr Clarkson some inconvenience (by which I mean he has to repudiate the DD, rather than he's embarrassed it happened).
And on the way lots of misinformation about DPA, which doesn't help anyone, frankly.
--
Roland Perry

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Roland Perry wrote:

As I seem to recall mentioning at the time, had the DD been set up to pay off a credit card (or better still "load" funds onto a single use disposable card) then the funds would be available for general use by the fraudster.

The fact that Clarkson may get his money back under a DD guarantee is not exactly the point - its still real money that came from somewhere (i.e. the law abiding customers of these services and products) and is now in the hands of a fraudster.
--
Cheers,

John.

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If you don't want to be caught rather quickly, the Credit Card would have to be in the name of someone whose identity (and mail delivery address) you'd previously stolen. Why go to the trouble of paying off such a card from funds stolen elsewhere, rather than just walking away?
Also I would expect that a check would be done if the account name for the bank account and the credit card weren't the same.
--
Roland Perry

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Roland Perry wrote:

Well you could use it to obtain goods/funds way in excess of the credit limit of the card, for a start.
OK, so I work in the accounts department of a big utility company, which gives me access to millions of bank account details, or I've just bought myself a copy of the missing Child Benefit CDs. What's to prevent me from furnishing myself with a stolen identity and credit card (which I'm sure is pretty straightforward to do if you know the right people), and then over the course of several months, setting up a gazillion direct debits for small, random sums of money, all set to fire off on a given date?
Some of the dormant d/d set ups would get spotted by observant online account holders and get cancelled, but are unlikley to ring major alarm bells as they are for small sums, and no money had actually been taken.
After the d/ds have paid out, people will start to spot them on their statements and question them, but again, as they are small sums I'll have bought time to spend my ill-gotten gains before anyone cottons on to the size of the fraud.
I don't get caught because there's no pattern to the accounts I've stolen due to the sheer magnitude of the database I've used, and I've taken basic precautions to conceal my IP address etc
Wouldn't that work?
David
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Probably the fact that you can only have one DD feeding into each credit card. The reason those DDs exist is to pay off the card each month. The amounts you can receive by such DDs (as far as I've seen) are "Minimum Payment" or "Whole Payment". Some CCs might allow random amounts of money, but could perhaps cap that at the amount due on the card (the CCs don't like you to overpay, and after all their core business is lending *you* money!)
And we haven't yet established that you can [easily] set up a DD into a credit card account using a bank account with a wildly different name.
--
Roland Perry

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Roland Perry wrote:

Rats. That's my career as a criminal mastermind nipped in the bud, then.
David
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On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 10:24:30 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:

Another option which all my CC providers will give you but don't tell you about is a 'fixed payment' - For example I have a card which is only holding a long term debt at a very low 'life of balance' interest rate. If I let it pay off the minimum amount it would take years to pay off. By paying a fixed amount (which was actually just over the minimum when I started it) the balance is actually repaid in a fraction of the time and for far less money, and I don't really notice that a steady payment isn't oh so slowly decreasing.
Do the calculations - it really makes a huge difference. Or look here: <http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cards/minimum-repayments-credit-card
==============="An example helps it make sense:
Going back to John Shortovcash above, with his £3,000 debt at 17.9% interest, with minimum repayments of 2%. In the first month his minimum repayment was £60. If instead of just paying the minimums he repaid this £60 every month, the scenario would change radically.
Making minimum repayments it'd take him 41 years to pay off the debts and cost £6,300 in interest, yet repaying a fixed £60, he'd clear the in just 7 years and the interest cost would be only £2,100; a huge saving of over £4,000. Of course, if he could afford to pay even more each month, he'd be even better off."
=============== This has been a public service announcement on behalf of us tightwads ;-)
Oh, is that my coat? I was just going to get that...
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On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 02:49:50 +0000 John Rumm wrote :

I thought it was in the hands of a charity: the 'fraudster' submitted a DD to the charity using the publicised details. So JC gets his money back instantly and the bank then reclaims it from the charity. Much as a chargeback on a credit card. Which is why you have to pass stringent checks before you can get a credit card merchant account or be able to instigate direct debits.
--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk


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Exactly right, and very well put. It's a shame the press aren't delivering the same clear explanation.
--
Roland Perry

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That's what I understood about direct debits. There are safeguards on place to protect those being debited. Unlike other methods of payment.
--
*Would a fly without wings be called a walk?

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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These details are available to anyone you send a cheque to for goods to be delivered by post to your home. Or indeed if you want an electronic transfer into your account.
--
*Why isn't there a special name for the back of your knee?

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote

That may be the case, but the excercise emphasises the point that fraudsters don't need the more specific details (expiry date and security code) associated with your bank card to withdraw from your account. When you send a cheque or carry out a phone purchase you are exercising a level of trust toward the vendor in divulging your personal information and expect that trust (rightly or wrongly) to be honoured. Personally I have never purchased anything "on-line", believing the person-to-person phone option to be less of a risk. However, two train tickets were booked on my account last year via thetrainline.com (of which I have no knowledge). Also I was recently emailed my account details, name and address and (company) phone number by an internet based fraud-prevention company offering to monitor the web and alert me of any occurrences of these details.
Although I had the bank issue me a fresh card (i e changed expiry and card number) the Clarkson stunt does indicate that this is probably not enough and I need to change my account completely.
Phil
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remarked:

I think you have made a wrong assessment. Buying by phone guarantees that your details passes through a person (who can make notes). Getting details for an online transaction requires someone to access the back office database. Phoned-in orders will inevitably end up in that same database.
--
Roland Perry

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"Roland Perry" wrote

My justification for this route is that it eliminates one point for data release - the home computer. Knowing how my kids use and abuse the family PC, I can easily see cached details hidden in the bowels of windoze being broadcast to the ether, despite firewalls, anti-virus etc etc
Phil
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remarked:

You might have a point with keyloggers, but the rest is largely superstition I think. Of course, as you were claming to be very risk averse, I might have expected you to take precautions (especially on a shared computer).
--
Roland Perry

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On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 16:46:24 +0000, TheScullster wrote:

That's the problem isn't it. Install a free and relatively secure OS.
being broadcast to the ether,

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
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