Would this be pre-nuclear, so of use calibrating things ? Three Dutch World War Two ships considered war graves have vanished from the bottom of the Java Sea, the Dutch defence ministry says. All three were sunk by the Japanese during the Battle of the Java Sea in 1942, and their wrecks were discovered by divers in 2002. But a new expedition to mark next year's 75th anniversary of the battle has found the wrecks are missing. A report in the Guardian says three British ships have disappeared as well. The Guardian says it has seen 3D images showing large holes in the seabed where HMS Exeter, HMS Encounter, the destroyer HMS Electra, as well as a US submarine, used to be. Experts say salvaging the wrecks would have been a huge operation. The Dutch defence ministry is to investigate the mysterious disappearance. In a statement, it said that two of its ships had completely gone, with sonar images only showing imprints, while large parts of a third ship, a destroyer, were missing. "The desecration of a war grave is a serious offence," the ministry said. Deep sea salvage: How to recover lost treasures of the deep Map of Indonesia showing location of Battle of Java sea just north of Java Theo Doorman, 82, son of legendary Rear Admiral Karel Doorman, who led the battle, was on the expedition which hoped to film the wrecks two weeks ago. He said he could not believe his eyes when the sonar images came in, showing only a groove where his father's ship had been. "I was sad," he said. "Not angry. That doesn't get you anywhere. But sad. For centuries is was a custom not to disturb sailors' graves. But it did happen here." Image of HNLMS JavaImage copyrightNETHERLANDS INSTITUTE OF MILITARY HISTORY The Battle of the Java Sea 27 February 1942 Allied action to stop Japanese Navy Dutch, British, Australian, US forces ships involved Five cruisers and nine destroyers involved, Led by Rear-Admiral Karel Doorman Only two ships remained Vanished ships are HNLMS De Ruyter,...

That was my immediate thought. There would be other metal scrap there as well, brass, copper, bronze, that sort of thing, and probably more valuable than the steel, but I recall from many years ago hearing the comment that steel from old WW2 warships was valuable for shielding sensitive radiation detectors, because they weren't contaminated by radioactivity from the nuclear weapons and tests from the late 1940's and 1950's. Razor blades was another suggested destination for old warships; I don't know why ordinary steel wouldn't do, but there's so much recycling of metals of all sorts these days that there's no such thing as pure steel any more, apparently; it's all contaminated with traces of this and that. Perhaps modern steel can't take the temper or be sharpened like old steel. Any metallurgists here? The other alternative is that the wrecks just rusted away and collapsed into two-dimensional heaps, so not visible on sonar any more, but I would have thought the sonar guys looking...

yes. There's a you tube video of lifting a car ferry in byte sized chunks after sawing it up. If you aren't too particular, explosives plus a grab crane will do the same job

What use for WW2 steel ?

Nov 16, 2016 23 Replies

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The Natural Philosopher 9 years ago

yes. There's a you tube video of lifting a car ferry in byte sized chunks after sawing it up.

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If you aren't too particular, explosives plus a grab crane will do the same job

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Chris Hogg 9 years ago

More about HMS Exeter (of River Plate and Graf Spee fame) here, including an image of the empty furrow on the sea floor:

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Sam Plusnet 9 years ago

I was about to say that even light cruisers had fairly thick layers of armour in places - but the De Ruyter had nothing thicker than 5 cm.

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rick 9 years ago

On of my hobbies is scuba diving and pre-nuclear steel is valuable ... but that means WWI For example the German High Seas fleet of WW1 was sunk at anchor (after surrender) at Scapa Flow in the Orkneys ... a huge amount of salvage of the steel took place for non0nuclear contaminated product.

Post 1940 steel is not usually worth cost of salvage unless it is pretty shallow - salvage is limited to boilers, prop (non-ferrus) and any cargo of use.

Don't know specific of these ship - they could simply be lost - wrong locations recorded - very frequently.

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