Water Softener for combi in very hard water area

[Andy Hall]

Didn't Randle Patrick McMurphy say something like that.?

.andy

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[IMM]

I only looked atbthe Liff bits.

You mean they state the electronic Scalewatchers work from experience, and one says salt softeners are "pants". I will use Cockneyisms to communicate with you better.

[Andy Hall]

..

If these are men in the trade, then I can see why DIY is attractive.

I'm not sure that they would even know what consensual sex is.

I think you misread it. The only reference I could find that talked about waste referred to waste of money and in connection with electronic devices. Can you point to the specific article, the author and date?

.andy

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[IMM]

I don't know, was he at the same Hossy?

[Andy Hall]

Well, let's see now. Title of thread:

"Water Softener for combi in very hard water area"

.andy

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[IMM]

He is confused with terminology. He doesn't want his system scaling up.

[IMM]

They generally were quite knowledgeable. They did say salt softeners are "pants".

Andy, are you going through a mid life crisis?

Some posts I picked up...

thescruff -- 10-30-2002 @ 10:56 PM The school of Water Sciences ( Cranfield University )have recently produced a do***ent to the effects of antiscale magnectic treatment.

Scientific research proves my theory, I Quote. Antiscale magnetic Treatment and other physical methods of scale suppression remain controversial and are still labled as gadgetry in some scientific circles.

Should anyone require the full 5 page report I could email this instead of wasting the forums space.

The British Water Co also confirm this report. A.. A water softener softens the water. B.. A magnetic device prevent scale.

thescruff

Dan -- 10-28-2002 @ 9:20 PM Personally I have only been using it [Scalewatcher] for a few months - but my bathroom engineer (who is friends with the UK distribution manager) has used them for quite a while. I have been very happy with the results so far. In fact the last customer to have one phoned me today (I mentioned her scaled up Response in another post). I told her to leave it for a while before paying - to make sure she was happy - and she was. Can't say fairer than that .

As for salt softeners, they are not worth their salt... (oh dear it's getting late ).

They are expensive to buy, expensive to run, and need a separate drinking supply. When you can fit an effective electronic unit for less than the cost of a salt unit why bother? There is also much less to go wrong. There is also the space consideration. They are not small, and the bags of salt weigh a fair bit too.

Another thing I always thought a bit of an annoyance for cusotmers, is the need to recharge over night, producing waste water. Not much use if you are on a meter.

On a fairer note, I know these units are a bit more expensive than some others on the market, but I do not know how much the others go towards eliminating exisitng scale, and some of them require several units fitted in some installations. You would need a large house to require more than one of the larger models of this ScaleWatcher; but then they cost more.

At the end of the day, I and my engineers like them, but they are not the only ones on the market, and they are not suitable for everyone.

Regards...

Dan Robinson Director - Jennings Heating & Plumbing. CORGI 138845 Tel: [phone] email: [e-mail]

[Andy Hall]

It's always important to validate the credentials of the contributor and the context before quoting. It is somewhat concerning that these individuals are having to go to condensing boiler seminars when they are supposed to be industry or trade professionals. Condensing boilers are hardly new technology are they?

If I do a word search for "pants" on both pages that you mention, it does not appear as far as I can see. Can you clarify......

.andy

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[Andy Hall]

He could easily have been.....

.andy

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[IMM]

It was a corrosion, and one maker gave a brief talk on how condensers work.

The word "pants" is for your comprehension.

[Andy Hall]

Here's the original question:

"I know this has been discussed many times before on this NG but just wondered if anyone had any personnel recommendations drawing from their own experience rather than anecdotal evidence."

Anyway, how can you have "descaled water". The scale occurs as a deposit on solid surfaces. A phosphor descaler will address that but not soften the water.

.andy

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[Andy Hall]

I know what it means. So, the article reference please.........

.andy

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[IMM]

[Andy Hall]

"Familial" connections to the UK distribution manager........

Further on he goes on to say:

"The Scale watcher DOES NOT - as scruff says soften water. It creates the same effect as softened water without adding anything to the supply. It mearly (for want of a better term) alters the water passing through it. "

Which is, of course, complete nonsense.

.andy

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[IMM]

he gave no evidence and the only dissenter.

Not him an employee, or subbie.

I think he mean descale rather than soften. he has satisfied customers too, and will refund.

[Andy Hall]

There was nothing of any substance from anybody who posted in that thread.

Which is why I said "familial". As he admits himself, he has only been using the thing for a few months.

Who knows? the comments are totally confused and hardly inspire any confidence.

He's hardly likely to post that he has dissatisfied customers, now is he?

good to hear....

.andy

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[IMM]

Andy, how would you know.

Personally. yet he has had excellent results in the field with customers. That is why he got one.

Why not. he could say. Oh Tosh! these don't work I have tried them. he never and said the opposite.

And the customers said it worked and kept it.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Any decent ion exchange unit that does he flow rate you will need - and that IS important for a combi on mains pressure feeding showers - will make the world of difference.

DO IT ASAP. As the man said.

[Andy Hall]

It seemed pretty obvious to me that this was a thread of the blind leading the blind.

Put it another way.

I know from personal experience that ion exchange softeners work. I can test the water and I know that less detergent is required than without. I also know the chemical processes by which they work.

I know from personal experience that phosphate dosing works. I have seen the results of that and again there is a well understood mechanism.

I have seen from the experience of neighbours using exactly the same water supply that I have that electronic and magnetic conditioners don't work. Everybody that has bought one has taken it back for a refund. There has never been a reliable scientific explanation of why the mechanisms used would work in a domestic setting. At best, there are a few people who claim that there is some positive effect. Given that, and the efficacy of the other two methods, the exercise seems pointless.

When somebody admits they have a personal contact with the supplier of something, I take that into account when they sing the praises of it, that this might not be an unbiased view.

or they didn't notice that there was no effect but didn't care.

.andy

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[IMM]

No one said they didn't work.

Mine works. And these pros tended to agree they worked too, who have greater exposure than you.

I never, and the poster said he customers do send them back.

He knew someone who did. Not himself.

If you read it he was called to a scaled up Responses, descaled it and fitted a Scalewatcher. The customer would know the difference.