Water Softener for combi in very hard water area

I'll throw something in here John.

Eco Hometec are a distributor for MAN Heiztechnik (part of the MAN BW company that make the big diesel engines and trucks) based in Hamburg

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other is MHS Boilers and both sell the Micromat EC product.

I researched good quality boilers a year and a bit ago and shortlisted to this one, Keston, Viessmann and a couple of others. My main issues were build quality, specification, reliability, spares availability, technical support etc.

I put together a very detailed questionnaire and emailed it to each supplier. I also contacted MAN Heiztechnik in Germany and spoke to their technical department and to a product manager, specifically on how they are selling the product. It is a high end boiler, no question, and that is reflected in the price - north of £1k.

I received a somewhat satisfactory reply from Keston and from Viessmann but the one from Eco Hometec was much more detailed and they answered every question. I had asked things like the prices for the six most expensive spare parts and so on. Frankly they did a lot of work to answer my questions that the others didn't bother to do.

I also checked out Eco Hometec's filing at the Registrar of Companies and they are not large, but I felt set up adequately to address what they are doing. They specialise in the selfbuild and discerning markets and sell directly to the end user or installer, not through plumbing and heating merchants. I visited their place in Doncaster - on an industrial estate on the edge of town. I guess that they employ around 15-20 people including service engineers in different parts of the country. There is a demo room set up with all of the boiler types that they sell and you can see any of them in operation - they'll show the components and how it all goes together etc.

The Micromat is an extremely well engineered and solid machine made from quality components. There was no comparison to the Glow Worm that was installed before and ended up in the skip not long afterwards.

In terms of design, I didn't need a lot of help apart from figuring out the correct setting for the boiler controller to drive the motorised valve setup that I have.

I did the installation except for the commissioning and everything else went smoothly.

I don't think that they will do complete installations but may organise someone for you. I believe that they do do designs including UFH if you want it. I'm pretty sure that they won't attempt to do things beyond their ability.

In terms of purchasing, this was uneventful as well. The questions were answered, and I deliberated for several months. They called me on an agreed basis each month to follow up any issues and then quoted

- didn't hassle me for the order.

If you are going for a HW cylinder, I would recommend getting one with a pocket for a temperature probe and getting the probe accessory for the boiler. This gives much better control of the hot water temperature and reheating than a cylinder thermostat does. The outside temperature sensor is included with the boiler.

I'd certainly buy the same boiler again and from them, so certainly I'd ask for a quote and ask your other questions.

.andy

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Reply to
Andy Hall
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There's an English section if you go to

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for the Micromat, and yes it is condensing.

Yes and no.

You size radiators to meet the worst case heat loss - ie. a cold winter's night. With a non-condensing boiler, this is done at 82 flow, 70 return.

A condensing boiler's efficiency increases with reducing return temperature. When the dew point around 54 degrees is reached, the graph of efficiency vs. temperature shows a knee in the curve and the efficiency increases at a greater rate below this as condensing happens. It is not correct to say that there is a sudden step change in condensing mode - purely a rate of change - so 53.5 is not hugely better than 54.5

When the weather is warmer, the weather compensator sensor causes the flow temperature and return temperature to be reduced by reducing the boiler burn rate and pump speed. Thus it will be working at higher efficiency anyway.

If you size the radiators larger, you can run the flow at a top temperature of 70 (return 50) and the boiler will modulate down further. Therefore it is true to say that it will generally be more efficient.

I replied to your email and basically I think you could do three scenarios.

- 85 degree radiator design and UFH connected using a blending valve

- 70 degree radiator design and UFH via blending valve

- 50 degree for both. However, the radiators would then be quite large.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Reply to
Andy Hall

Eco hometec did specify the boiler and tank as well as the UFH design and although their service was generally ok I wouldn't use them again. The reason for this is that I have learnt a lot more about heating from this group in the last year and it is possible to buy an identical system for MUCH less if you shop around Having said that you do get the peace of mind that everything will be appropriately sized and there is a good chance it will all work together

Nick Brooks

Reply to
Nick Brooks

Nick, what would you suggest to John as an alternative?

Reply to
IMM

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