Varnish or Stain

[Frank Davis]

My sister has started to paint the outside doors and windows of her newish (4 years old) house. The windows and doors are thick (scandanavian style) pine made by Rationel. The location is southern Ireland (Cork), south facing. In the summer it gets very hot sun.

The timber looks like it was originally stained. She has started work, and has one coat of varnish on some of the windows and 2 doors. She spoke to me after getting this far and I have put some doubt in her mind as to whether varnish is the best coating to use. My recommendation is that she should use a stain of some type (Sadolin is the brand name that I normally use). The problem is that she already has one coat of varnish on the timber.

Should she continue down the varnish route and put on another coat or two, or strart from scratch, strip off the varnish and go for a woodstain.

Any recommendations from the experts ???

Thanks

Frank

[Andy Hall]

Sadolin or Sikkens for the basic products, or Jotun (a Norwegian product) which IME is better and also available in a wide range of colours.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

[Paul Mc Cann]

Sadolin will be very easy to apply as its quite thin. Over the years it won't build up to a dark colour as a heavy, coloured 'varnish' might, especially if she uses the one for light woods which will actually give a slight colour.

I think you may be a little astray in your definitions. Varnish is a bit of a catch-all expression. I would consider Sadolins a type of varnish. A pure stain will provide very little if any protection. You choice will lie between things like 'It does what it says on the tin ', not, Sadolins and its ilk, or some type of polyurethane product which will be very hardwearing, but more work to apply.

I would avoid the yacht varnishes. IME they go patchy after a while and require a complete strip back to achieve a satisfactory finish

Don't dream of water based finishes. They are an abomination to get right in their varnish incarnation.

If the house is south facing, as ours is, she's going to have to re-do it every two years. We have mahogany windows and door frames and I am now seriously considering painting them all white, SWMBO permitting of course, as it deteriorates so rapidly

Paul Mc Cann

[N. Thornton]

as long as shes using a suitable good quality clear varnish, yes. Dont touch tinted varishes though, theyre dreadful.

woodstain dosent protect wood, it just stains it. Not much use. Staining pine gives quick colour but it also kills the detail in the wood. Much better to let it mellow by itself.

I'm surprised, I've never had any problems with them.

Why not oil them? Very quick and easy.

Regards, NT

[Paul Mc Cann]

snip

Because it would offer precious little, if any, protection

Paul Mc Cann

[Paul Mc Cann]

snip

The flow characteristics of the many I have tried preclude a streak free finish when brushing or using foam applicators, especially if any sort of colour is included. I've tried all the tricks I know to successfully use these products all to no avail. I do use a water based sanding sealer for its convenience especially if doing small pieces but thats the extent of it.

Paul Mc Cann

[Jerry Built]

Really? I've found that oil on hardwood gives good protection, and is very easy to re-do when needed.

J.B.

[N. Thornton]

I used oil (as a 50/50 mix with paraffin) on a softwood frame to hold permanently wet earth. Something like 5 or 6 years later - with no reoiling - and it looked as good as when it went in. I was very surprised, only intended it to be temporary.

Regards, NT

[Jerry Built]

I take it you're talking about mineral oil for engines - I would not use that on windows! I was referring to linseed oil, boiled (hardens more quickly) or raw (penetrates further, takes longer to go off), which forms a protective coating on the surface of the timber as well. Re-treatment is just a matter of rubbing up with a cloth and some turps/subst., and re-coating - or, indeed, just re-coating!

J.B.

[N. Thornton]

yup

I guess something that sets would stay cleaner. Point was just that oil is a good preserver of wood.

Regards, NT

[Paul Mc Cann]

Protection against what?

Not the sun certainly and I can't believe it would give any sort of protection against the elements.

If left on the surface in an outside environment it will just provide a medium for dust etc to adhere to. It would have very little resistance to rain frost or snow.

As an interior finish it is really only useful as a cosmetic finish as abrasion resistance is very low and friction would remove it rapidly. Yes I know those with butcher block worktops in their kitchens claim it only requires a quick wipe down 'occasionly' to keep it looking good to which I would reply thats all a formica finish requires, and with a damp cloth not an oil soaked rag. I can think of no commercial kitchens who would be so daft as to elect to use such a worktop. Just fashion really, like the Belfast sinks, the majority of which aren't even 'Belfast' sinks

If oil was that wonderful there would be precious little paint and varnish sold.

Besides I don't think SWMBO would be too chuffed at having the woodwork finished in a 50/50 mixture of oil/paraffin. (Surely this must be bordering on a flammable mix ?)

Paul Mc Cann

[N. Thornton]

Sounds like youve no experience with it and are just imagining how it might work. Reality is its been used for a long time and is very effective.

You dont want it on windows because it does get dusty and makes painting afterwards impossible. And you dont want it indoors because of the paraffin as well.

Bordering on flammable? Youre kidding? Anyone knows what paraffin is. If you dont know how it works, the paraffin thins the oil to enable it to penetrate well, and evaporates leaving the oil behind.

Regards, NT

[Paul Mc Cann]

I've no experience of playing football at Premiership level but that doesn't preclude me from being able to make intelligent comment upon it.

For my sins I worked for a period of time in the paint manufacturing industry and in my experience the mixture you describe was not much used and not widely appreciated. I met all the shortcuts in my day. Pure Xylene in place of thinners (no duty if bought right ). Petrol as thinners as it can be cheaper than industrial thinners ! etc., etc.

I understand a little about the mechanics/chemistry of protective coatings and a mix of oil/paraffin is nothing wonderful.

which is what I said above

Well given that this thread was about treating doors and windows what are you on about ?

I was referring to the mixture.

Paul mc Cann

[Jerry Built]

What have you to say about the merits of treating hardwood with linseed oil as a measure or protection/preservation?

J.B.