Using wiring for attic light socket as plug socket?



I did the same for an aerial amp.
--

DerbyBorn

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DerbyBorn wrote:

Some electricians always used a fit a 2A socket in the loft for us. I put a little amp in every loft on an 80 dwelling job, and I got pretty adept at fitting them liddle plugs. It worried me that there was no plug top fuse but the experts waved their hands airily and assured me that there wouldn't be a problem.
Bill
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On 11/02/2014 20:42, Bill Wright wrote:

Well you have two considerations in these cases: overload protection and fault protection. Since its one fixed appliance with little scope for a user to change or alter it, then you can legitimately ignore the possibility of overload. Fault protection must be provided, but you can normally demonstrate that with a small MCB at the origin of the circuit, it will provide adequate protection for even relatively lightweight appliance flexes on your 2A plug.
--
Cheers,

John.
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paulfoel wrote:

Make your mind up, a plug or a socket? They are two different things.
jgh
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paulfoel wrote:

What's your problem? Calling it a double plug socket makes perfect sense. Is far better than those that call sockets plugs and plugs "plug tops"!
I do have a single plug socket from the lighting ring in my loft but its a 5 amp round pin socket that powers the aerial booster. Never connect a 13 amp socked as who knows what someone may try to run from it.
Mike
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I'm wondering what is confusing about plug and socket? Why does either need any extra description?
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*Why were the Indians here first? They had reservations.*

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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Well, it's hardly a definitive description, is it?
I'm thinking of putting a socket in my loft.
What kind of socket?
A plug socket.
Errrrrrrr?
In short, it adds nothing to the description.
I'm thinking of putting a new plug socket behind the telly.
Is that a phono plug socket, HDMI socket, phone plug socket, VGA plug socket, RJ45 plug socket, F-type plug socket, Belling-Lee plug socket, 13A plug socket, 5A (lighting) plug socket or some other kind of plug socket?
Those that use the term seem to think it is the most logical term in the world but I just can't see the logic behind it.
Personally I'd say 13A socket, 13A dual socket, 13A single socket or whatever.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .
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This is a DIY group. Not every DIY person has a full grasp of professional terminology including myself. He made the situation perfectly clear in the first sentence (which I notice has been clipped out) explaining what he wanted to do.
Asking, what type of double plug socket? May have been constructive, commenting "Make your mind up, a plug or a socket? They are two different things." Just makes the writer sound like a smart arse with nothing to contribute!
That remains my opinion.
Mike
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Professional terminology like 13A socket ;-)

Actually you're quite right and it's a helpful reminder, never a negative without a positive[1], so it's fine to make a correction but only after offering a solution or constructive suggestion on the problem at hand which was not done in the case you pointed out.
My bessie mate has the 'plug socket' mental block and I am have no reservations about ripping the piss out of him over it but he is a software engineer and so cannot be expected to have a grasp of the real world.
[1] There are no prizes for finding instances where I have failed to do this but I sit suitably reminded for the future.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .
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Plug, pins, penis?
--
*INDECISION is the key to FLEXIBILITY *

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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fred wrote:

That can't be right. Software engineers don't have mates.
Bill
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On 10/02/2014 15:00, paulfoel wrote:

Not a good idea! What size cable feeds the lighting circuit, and how is it protected at the CU - what value of fuse, breaker, etc.?
If you only want to use low power appliances up there, you might get way with connecting a socket via an FCU with a 5 amp fuse in it - but it's far from good practice!
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Cheers,
Roger
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Phil L explained :

I agree, you have to consider that someone may come along and assume it is safe to plug a 3Kw heater in there. Much safer would be to run a spur off the upstairs ring, to a twin 13 amp socket, then use one outlet for the light, via a suitably small fuse in the plug, leaving you one outlet for your angle grinder, wander light, or what ever.
There is almost always an easy cable route from the 1st floor floor-level, upto the loft space - airing cupboard etc..
If you then somehow manage to trip that, you will still have some working light on the floor below.
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Harry (M1BYT) (L)
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On Monday 10 February 2014 16:17 Harry Bloomfield wrote in uk.d-i-y:

well, in the worst case, it will take out the protective device (fuse) - which will be annoying, but not actually dangerous...
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On 10/02/2014 17:14, Tim Watts wrote:

A 5A fuse in a spur probably won't blow before the 6A breaker in the CU anyway so its not actually going to improve protection. It may make the circuit easier to understand.

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dennis@home wrote:

Thank you.
--

Adam



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On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 19:27:09 +0000, "dennis@home"

Electrically speaking, you can wire a 13A socket straight off the lighting wiring without compromising safety, provided the lighting circuit remains fused at its 6 amp maximum limit.
If you're fitting a 13A socket in the loft or attic, it's usually for the purposes of providing power to something like a masthead amp or TV aerial distribution amp both of which would be more than amply served by a half amp fuse[1] which minimises the risk of a house fire should a fault develop on the (now fused) 13A socket spur.
Of course, there still remains the risk of a fire from a fault in the amplifier kit itself but, provided it has been designed to the mandatory safety requirements for such 'domestic appliances' this aught to eliminate such risk. The only problem is that, unlike a radio or hairdrier, it is operating 'out of sight' of any human supervision.
I'd be inclined to mount such devices on a metal shelf with heat resistant deflectors (steel sheeting) to stop any flamage from reaching any flamable construction materials and, for good measure, install a loud smoke detector above, but to one side of said kit, ideally with a repeater just outside of the loft hatchway or attic doorway.
In my case, that last bit of paranoia has remained merely an idle inclination to this day (although I might try the smoke alarm idea).
[1] If you needed to provide power for powertools, you'd just plug in a suitable mains lead extension into one of your regular 13A sockets unless you were planning on turning your attic into a workshop (in which case we wouldn't be discussing the use of a lighting circuit feed for a 13A socket now, would we?).
Fitting a 13A fused box in the spur feed to the 13A socket allows you to fit a half or 1 amp fuse which will be more than ample for the socket's intended purpose yet reduce the risk of a fault on the spur from blacking out that lighting circuit. It's just a matter of "Good Practice" and common sense to splash out on such a 'luxury item'.
The same applies to fusing up 30A ring main circuits with lower rated fuses when appropriate. My top floor ring main currently has a 15A fuse link fitted because the only loads are my son's "HiFi" and widescreen TV and computer stuff with no 2kW electric fan heaters in sight.
The 15A fuse link has never blown in the past 7 or 8 years since I downgraded the circuit to a "15A Ring Main". The risk of a fire in the ring main circuit, though slight enough to be deemed acceptable according to the regulations is now somewhat safer again.
I like the principle that you can replace a large fuse link in an existing fuse carrier with smaller rated fuse links (Wylex CU) since it makes it very simple to downgrade the ciruit capacity on an as needed basis without compromising safety (in this case, boosting safety), since it's a trivial exercise to refit the original larger fuse should the smaller one blow due to unanticipated overload.
--
Regards, J B Good

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On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 8:32:39 PM UTC, Johny B Good wrote:

2A and below suffer much more frequent failure, I expect one of the reasons for the choice of 3A fuses in the 40s.

no :)

Biscuit tins are relatively easy to apply. Snip & bend back the 3 tabs for each hole. They restrict airflow, so a signifcant fire size cant happen. Things can get hot, but fire heat wont add to it significantly.

I've seen whole flats here running on a 5A feed. A pain, but workable. In eastern europe its standard practice to have an 8A feed to flats.
NT
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On 2014-02-11, snipped-for-privacy@care2.com wrote:

Has fuse manufacturing not improved in the past 70 years?
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On Thursday, February 13, 2014 4:03:39 PM UTC, Adam Funk wrote:

AFAIK fuse wire is still the same material (tinned copper) it was 100 years ago. Its drawn differently, but afaik the result is the same. 3/13A cartridges have only changed in very minor details since their design in the 40s. BICBW.
NT
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