Some electricians always used a fit a 2A socket in the loft for us. I
put a little amp in every loft on an 80 dwelling job, and I got pretty
adept at fitting them liddle plugs. It worried me that there was no plug
top fuse but the experts waved their hands airily and assured me that
there wouldn't be a problem.
Well you have two considerations in these cases: overload protection and
fault protection. Since its one fixed appliance with little scope for a
user to change or alter it, then you can legitimately ignore the
possibility of overload. Fault protection must be provided, but you can
normally demonstrate that with a small MCB at the origin of the circuit,
it will provide adequate protection for even relatively lightweight
appliance flexes on your 2A plug.
What's your problem? Calling it a double plug socket makes perfect sense. Is
far better than those that call sockets plugs and plugs "plug tops"!
I do have a single plug socket from the lighting ring in my loft but its a 5
amp round pin socket that powers the aerial booster. Never connect a 13 amp
socked as who knows what someone may try to run from it.
Well, it's hardly a definitive description, is it?
I'm thinking of putting a socket in my loft.
What kind of socket?
A plug socket.
In short, it adds nothing to the description.
I'm thinking of putting a new plug socket behind the telly.
Is that a phono plug socket, HDMI socket, phone plug socket, VGA plug
socket, RJ45 plug socket, F-type plug socket, Belling-Lee plug socket,
13A plug socket, 5A (lighting) plug socket or some other kind of plug
Those that use the term seem to think it is the most logical term in the
world but I just can't see the logic behind it.
Personally I'd say 13A socket, 13A dual socket, 13A single socket or
This is a DIY group. Not every DIY person has a full grasp of professional
terminology including myself. He made the situation perfectly clear in the
first sentence (which I notice has been clipped out) explaining what he
wanted to do.
Asking, what type of double plug socket? May have been constructive,
commenting "Make your mind up, a plug or a socket? They are two different
things." Just makes the writer sound like a smart arse with nothing to
That remains my opinion.
Actually you're quite right and it's a helpful reminder, never a
negative without a positive, so it's fine to make a correction but
only after offering a solution or constructive suggestion on the problem
at hand which was not done in the case you pointed out.
My bessie mate has the 'plug socket' mental block and I am have no
reservations about ripping the piss out of him over it but he is a
software engineer and so cannot be expected to have a grasp of the real
 There are no prizes for finding instances where I have failed to do
this but I sit suitably reminded for the future.
Not a good idea! What size cable feeds the lighting circuit, and how is
it protected at the CU - what value of fuse, breaker, etc.?
If you only want to use low power appliances up there, you might get way
with connecting a socket via an FCU with a 5 amp fuse in it - but it's
far from good practice!
I agree, you have to consider that someone may come along and assume it
is safe to plug a 3Kw heater in there. Much safer would be to run a
spur off the upstairs ring, to a twin 13 amp socket, then use one
outlet for the light, via a suitably small fuse in the plug, leaving
you one outlet for your angle grinder, wander light, or what ever.
There is almost always an easy cable route from the 1st floor
floor-level, upto the loft space - airing cupboard etc..
If you then somehow manage to trip that, you will still have some
working light on the floor below.
Electrically speaking, you can wire a 13A socket straight off the
lighting wiring without compromising safety, provided the lighting
circuit remains fused at its 6 amp maximum limit.
If you're fitting a 13A socket in the loft or attic, it's usually for
the purposes of providing power to something like a masthead amp or TV
aerial distribution amp both of which would be more than amply served
by a half amp fuse which minimises the risk of a house fire should
a fault develop on the (now fused) 13A socket spur.
Of course, there still remains the risk of a fire from a fault in the
amplifier kit itself but, provided it has been designed to the
mandatory safety requirements for such 'domestic appliances' this
aught to eliminate such risk. The only problem is that, unlike a radio
or hairdrier, it is operating 'out of sight' of any human supervision.
I'd be inclined to mount such devices on a metal shelf with heat
resistant deflectors (steel sheeting) to stop any flamage from
reaching any flamable construction materials and, for good measure,
install a loud smoke detector above, but to one side of said kit,
ideally with a repeater just outside of the loft hatchway or attic
In my case, that last bit of paranoia has remained merely an idle
inclination to this day (although I might try the smoke alarm idea).
 If you needed to provide power for powertools, you'd just plug in
a suitable mains lead extension into one of your regular 13A sockets
unless you were planning on turning your attic into a workshop (in
which case we wouldn't be discussing the use of a lighting circuit
feed for a 13A socket now, would we?).
Fitting a 13A fused box in the spur feed to the 13A socket allows you
to fit a half or 1 amp fuse which will be more than ample for the
socket's intended purpose yet reduce the risk of a fault on the spur
from blacking out that lighting circuit. It's just a matter of "Good
Practice" and common sense to splash out on such a 'luxury item'.
The same applies to fusing up 30A ring main circuits with lower rated
fuses when appropriate. My top floor ring main currently has a 15A
fuse link fitted because the only loads are my son's "HiFi" and
widescreen TV and computer stuff with no 2kW electric fan heaters in
The 15A fuse link has never blown in the past 7 or 8 years since I
downgraded the circuit to a "15A Ring Main". The risk of a fire in the
ring main circuit, though slight enough to be deemed acceptable
according to the regulations is now somewhat safer again.
I like the principle that you can replace a large fuse link in an
existing fuse carrier with smaller rated fuse links (Wylex CU) since
it makes it very simple to downgrade the ciruit capacity on an as
needed basis without compromising safety (in this case, boosting
safety), since it's a trivial exercise to refit the original larger
fuse should the smaller one blow due to unanticipated overload.
On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 8:32:39 PM UTC, Johny B Good wrote:
2A and below suffer much more frequent failure, I expect one of the reasons for the choice of 3A fuses in the 40s.
Biscuit tins are relatively easy to apply. Snip & bend back the 3 tabs for each hole. They restrict airflow, so a signifcant fire size cant happen. Things can get hot, but fire heat wont add to it significantly.
I've seen whole flats here running on a 5A feed. A pain, but workable. In eastern europe its standard practice to have an 8A feed to flats.
On Thursday, February 13, 2014 4:03:39 PM UTC, Adam Funk wrote:
AFAIK fuse wire is still the same material (tinned copper) it was 100 years ago. Its drawn differently, but afaik the result is the same. 3/13A cartridges have only changed in very minor details since their design in the 40s. BICBW.
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