Any body any idea what the union or JIB rates are for Skilled Bricklayers / Carpenters in the Midlands area of the UK.
Also what would be an typical hourly rate for a self employed bricklayer or carpenter (fully trained)
I am asking this because my son wants to be come a bricklayer or carpenter.
We reckon that the rates are fixed if employed, but are generally being kept down due to Polish / Latvian imigrants. is there any truth in that.
Probably some truth, but if he's a skilled & reliable worker he'll never be short of a job with a traditional trade under his belt.
Fine - but the rates will likely change by the time he becomes qualified. And is he very young? Most by working age might have an idea which of very different trades they might be suitable for. By perhaps showing an interest in it as a hobby? Ie, plenty say they want to be a brain surgeon. But wanting to be something doesn't mean they are up to it.
No. There are no fixed rates for any employment and skill - apart from possibly in local government, etc. But few councils have staff in this sort of area anymore - they use contractors.
If self employed you can try and charge what you want. But may not get any work. Market forces. Nothing to do with immigrants. Just supply and demand.
I'd suggest you tell your son to research the market. And decide what skills he's likely to learn properly. A skilled workman will always be in demand - if good at his job. But only in short term areas of shortage a license to print money.
I've managed to find that an unskilled 'adult general operative' is paid £6.42/hr minimum, and a 'skilled craftsman' is paid £8.38 minimum. Plus mileage, OT etc.
But what typically would an employed skilled bricklayer be paid, and what would it be if self employed ???
I'm trying to do a comparison with say a architecural designer, who can start at £25000
Is there anywhere I can get a list of comparable wages for different construction jobs, be it on site or in the office ??.
Certainly there is a high immigrant workforce around here that is willing to work for minimum wage, which appears to be keeping general wages on the low side.
clean hands, fixed hours, suite & tie, company car, a few years at uni (with opportunity to learn second/third language & shag all the girls) starting /salary/ of £25k, excellent prospects, possibility of global placements with the right firm, especially if you've chosen the right language ... one of the Chinese languages would be a good move ;-)
OR
dirty hands, dirty clothes, oiks for workmates, outdoors in all weathers, fixed payscale, /wages/, building site politics, years of crap pay and long hours until he can start out on his own by which time he could have earned up to a 1/4 million in salary ....
for a young lad just starting out it's a no brainer.
YMMWV
Different councils will pay different rates. And paying mileage seems strange. They would normally travel in a council truck.
You can just about get a good brickie in London for 200 quid a day (8 hours)
So assuming 4 weeks holiday and a 5 day week that might equate to just under 50 grand a year. But of course few will have these sort of days every day of the week. A weekly rate will be less. And a permanent position that pays holiday and sick pay, etc even less per hour.
That might be a starting salary for many professions. But of course a good one will end up on very much more.
You might try the appropriate union. But if it's anything like mine (BECTU
- which covers the TV etc industry) those rates are often much higher than actually paid.
A capitalist's dream? Apart from them being immigrants, obviously.
A few things don't seem quite right here:
- Fixed hours for case 1
- Suit and tie are an advantage?
- Politics only for case 2?
- Shagging all the girls only available for case 1?
Apart from that, case 1 would appear to be the more attractive of the two.
yup. long. but dry, usually indoors and generally warm. do more than your contracted hours and you go up the greasy pole quicker. do 60 hours a week as a brickie and you're a stooped old man by the time you're 50, round about the time a smart architect would be thinking of semi retirement, having been a partner for some years.
over a pair of redwings, jeans and a lumberjack shirt ? shrugs.
aye, but office politics is less likely to end up with a turd in your tool box or a smack in the mouth for not liking x football team over y football team. PLUS, you're less likely to have the piss taken out of you for reading a /book/ (heaven forfend) with your snap rather than the sun or the mirror. or the daily spurt. lowbrow doesn't cover it.
posh uni fillies don't generally give out to bricklayers.
if I had the chance to do it all again I'd choose option 1. and properly.
.. or just get to keep your job because that is the expectation.
I'd rather have the jeans.
I see your point, but there can certainly be virtual turds in toolboxes and there is more than the literal version of the smack in the mouth.
I'd always heard that some like a bit of rough.
The grass always seems greener....
nope, it's all set out for you in your annual appraisal. what's expected to get an 'A'. do the bare minimum and it's C's all the way, bust a bollock and you can be like my 'mate' Paul: 14 years from the bottom to UK MD of one of the largest companies on the planet. quite able to retire at 38 !
38 ffs !
me too.
yup, but it's more a case of debate over argument. subtle but important.
I'll wager an architect looking out of the office window at the site below doesn't think that as much as the brickie looking up at the suits in the office, through the pissing rain, in november, does ;-)
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "Dave Plowman (News)" saying something like:
Which is exactly the OP's point. In many parts of the British Isles where there is an influx of Polish/Latvian/etc workers, rates are indeed lower than they should be. Those lads, while nice enough fellows, will work for half what a local will.
Employers love them for that, unsurprisingly. I expect the situation will rectify eventually, but might take a couple of years yet.
Well...... if it's a large organisation (or even a smaller one for that matter) they are not going to put anything in an annual appraisal that explicitly or even overtly implicitly suggests more than the statutory maximum working hours.
The more typical situation is to ask the employee to sign a waiver for that.
Paul is one in several hundred thousand who probably also managed to be in the right place at the right time as well as working hard and being willing to take risks I suspect.
I'm sure that's true.
The other way of looking at it is that the locals are charging twice as much as they should be, or simply aren't willing to do the work. British brickies etc were happy enough to be guest workers in Germany during the
80s when there was a recession in the UK.
I dunno. I work outside in the pissing rain and freezing cold making TV programmes. And probably in worse conditions than you could lay bricks in. You simply need the correct protective clothing - which needn't cost the earth. And don't think the grass is greener in post production where my colleagues are in a nice air conditioned suite...
But then on a pleasant day it's a boon to be outside rather than indoors. You can move about - not tied to a desk all day.
The Swedes say that - no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothes.
I thought that these were the guys who spend their time in Soho wine bars discussing Richard Attenborough and fridges. :-)
I don't find myself tied to a desk very often - yesterday was the first time in over 3 weeks - more like tied to aircraft seats. Still, at least I can turn on the noise-cancelling headphones and the iPod.
The good ol' days of post involving reels and reels of film and tape. Where the producer, director and PA would all be present throughout the entire session - although probably not awake for most of it.
Nowadays it's just one operator sat at a workstation on his own to do the nuts and bolts - with the director just coming in to approve the final cut and make slight alterations.
Last time I flew I wasn't so much tied to my seat but jammed in it by the proximity of the one in front. So unless I can afford business class minimum never again.
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