Is it OK to have underfloor heating as your primary heat source for a room (I'm looking at installing it into my kitchen)?
If so, what type and output would I need to get? I'm only looking at covering about 9 square metres.
TIA.
Yes, it is fine as the primary heating, provided that the room is well insulated. The output is limited, and can't heat a room on its own that is poorly insulated.
Assuming you have wet central heating, the best method is to use PEX pipe buried in the floor (concrete floor) or between the joists (wooden floor). This is easier to retrofit to wooden floors, as the concrete will normally need digging out to add insulation and pipework.
Christian.
Thanks yet again Christian, is there anything you can't help with?
Can you suggest any cheap, but good systems?
Well the cheapest method is just to buy lots of PEX pipe and some clips. However, there are lots of companies that will sort you out with kits. For recommendations, you will need to say what your existing floor construction is.
One issue is that underfloor heating must be run at a much lower temperature than normal central heating or hot water heating. This means that you must also install a thermostatic mixing valve and pump for the underfloor system (this can be shared amongst all underfloor systems within the house). This is easy to do and not expensive, but you need somewhere accessible nearby to install the valve and pump.
Christian.
I have a solid concrete floor which we are ripping up and going to re-lay.
You could try something like a Continental Solution 10 kit. Make sure, whatever you choose, that the floor construction is appropriate before laying any concrete.
A waste of time. Use a Myson Kickspace fan convector. It goes in the kickspace under the units. All you see is a neat grill, chrome or many other colours. Blows heat across your feet. You can even have a wall thermostat on it to ensure the kitchen doesn't overheat. No long lag in warm up, as it warms up very fast and heat is instantly gone when the fan is off. With UFH in a kitchen the heat hangs around for hours, meaning you may have to open windows wasting heat which you have paid for, when the oven is put on adding heat to the kitchen.
On 14 Aug 2006 03:25:41 -0700 someone who may be "mkkbb" wrote this:-
In addition to operating the underfloor heating at a lower temperature to radiators, so that people can stand on the floor, underfloor heating also has different time characteristics. It can be turned off earlier than radiators (because the floor provides thermal storage) and will probably need to be turned on earlier. Thus it should be on a separate time control, have a room thermostat and ideally the pump and mixing valve should be arranged to compensate for outside temperature. All this is no great hardship as controllers are available to do all of this.
If you really want to be warm, forget about underfloor heating. Whenever I look at a these systems they invariably are used in conjunction with other heaters and the owners just wont admit that they are useless because they spent so much money putting them in.
Put a decent layer of insulation under the floor and leave it at that.
IMHO - this is utter rubbish.
Pretty much our entire downstairs is UFH and is wonderful - gently warm underfoot, invisible, economical and not expensive to install.
I'm yet to hear of anyone complain about a well-designed and installed
*wet* UFH system. Now *electric* is another matter....Jon.
Certainly, the numbers suggest that unless the room is well insulated, the total heat output will be insufficient. However, they have significant advantages over other methods. In particular, they are very useful in rooms with tiled floors, such as bathrooms and kitchens, as they enable you to use the room without having to find shoes or slippers. They are also useful in wetter rooms, as puddles of water will evaporate more readily. Finally, the heating will be much quieter than the alternative, which in most kitchens would be a fan convector, as wall space is too valuable to use for passively convected radiators.
That said, the fan convector has a considerable advantage in terms of rapidity of heating. I think the best solution for a kitchen is to actually have both underfloor and fan convector. This gives the best of both worlds, with warm feet, rapid response and high total heat output.
In my own kitchen, I have a fan convector (plus an absolutely tiny radiator that was there already that couldn't heat a cupboard, let alone a kitchen). This does provide very effective and rapid heating. However, I do miss having a warm floor and it is a pain in winter having to find footwear for every foray into the room, unless the heating has been on for hours.
Christian.
It isn't at all. UFH needs well thought out control to be effective. Many installers (plumbers really not know too much about it) throw lots of plastic pipe under the floors, thinking this will solve everything. It doesn't.
A new floor with lots of foam insulation under, and to the sides up to screed level, forming a tray, will not be cold. The tiles will eventually heat up with the heating system and not lose heat to the ground beneath.
Having UFH and a Myson convestor is expensive madness. A kitchen needs heat instantly and to be able to stop heat instantly. A kitchen is the last place UFH should be considered.
The problem is that heat rises, so the floor is the last thing to warm up, unless it forms part of the heating system itself, or there is a heated room below it.
Christian.
Not if your spouse suffers from serious cramp in her feet as a consequence of arthritis. Why do you suggest that a kitchen requires instantaneous heat? We spend more waking hours in our kitchen and breakfast room than in any other part of the house.
And the cats love the Myson Kickspace heater ;-)
Richard
There is an advantage in having rapidly responding heat output in a kitchen. This is because the kitchen can hold other considerable heat producing devices, such as ovens, microwaves, washing machines and hobs. A responsive system can rapidly shut down, whilst a slow acting system may overheat the room.
This is why I think a composite system containing both fan convectors and a low output underfloor system would work most effectively in a kitchen. It is, however, I concede, not the cheapest option by a large marign.
Christian.
Interesting thoughts brought up. I think the underfloor option will probably be too expensive for me, but I will definately look into the fan heaters. Thanks everyone.
You can hedge your bets if you like. You can install the pipework, but not fit the expensive manifolds/pump assemblies. Then, if you change your mind later, you can complete the install. Once the floor is down, the opportunity won't arise again!
BTW, the Myson Kickspace is very good. I have a 600 hydronic and it heats up the kitchen very rapidly. It is best fitted on its own heating zone, although this isn't essential. If you don't install a zone valve at all, then balancing will be critical, or it will short circuit your heating system even when off. A room stat is absolutely essential, too. They are so powerful, the room would rapidly overheat without one.
Christian.
That is not the norm and a special circumstance. Also the Myson blow warm air across the floor, so beneficial in your case.
As the cooking appliance can generate heat quite quickly and the heating should be capable of being off immediately. The Myson will do this.
You got itn then.
Almost! The Myson is the only heat source (apart from hob and oven as you so rightly observe). I had sorted a supplier of electric UFH and bought the tiles when spouse decided that it would be a good idea to rebuild the back of the house - removing and replacing the breakfast room in the process. So we _will_ have Myson + electric UHF in the kitchen and breakfast room when everything settles plus UHF in the new sitting room (possibly wet as a new slab will be required for what is effectively a new extension) supported by a wood burner.
Richard
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