Tumble Dryer Fires

Just reading the downloaded instructions for use for a current model Bosch tumble dryer. Contains this paragraph:
Caution! Risk of fire. Laundry may catch fire. If you cancel the programme, you must remove the laundry items and spread them out so that the heat can disperse.
https://portal.bsh-partner.com/portal (bD1kZSZjPTAwOQ==)/PORTALFRAME.HTM
My question, if this is serious and not just arse-covering, surely the laundry could catch fire if there is a power cut. That being the case, and the fact many/most power cuts are not predicted (nor predictable), wouldn't we have to run back to the house to spread the laundry out whenever there is a power cut and we are using the dryer?
Have no intention of going out with it running, but given the home connect feature, it is obviously what Bosch are expecting people to do.
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Rod

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wrote:

Teutonic grade arse covering.
Incidentally, the link you posted just returns a minimalist page saying, "No correct login"
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On 22/09/16 23:00, polygonum wrote:

I would have said that in practise, it is very unlikely. At uni, we had some almighty big gas tumble dryers in the laundrette. They had no cool down cycle and the clothes came out red hot - if you pulled a synthetic pair of trousers out, you literally lit the room up in static sparks.
And they used to just stop and sit in a pile when the token time ran out.
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On Thursday, 22 September 2016 23:01:01 UTC+1, polygonum wrote:

I used to run maintenance on a commercial laundry. This perfectly true and is a common cause of laundry fires. (The other being dust.) The laundry catches fire for the same cause as damp hay starts barn fires.. Cotton and woolens being the worst culprits. The bigger the load, the more likely it is to happen.
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I don't think so, Harry. Heated green hay gives off Phosphine gas from the breakdown of plant cells containing phosphorous. The gas is highly flammable.

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Tim Lamb

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On Friday, 23 September 2016 09:11:43 UTC+1, Tim Lamb wrote:

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/09/moist-baled-stacked-hay-catch-fire/
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Part of the explanation. I don't think damp hay or straw is going to burst into flames at 230deg F. Manure/compost heaps get hot but you don't see them burning.
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Apart from the one in an adjacent field that burst into flames on Thursday.
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Oh! They've gone back to school here:-)

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It really *is* in the middle of nowhere. I'd be really surprised if it had been arson.
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The last cattle left here in 2006 but the annual gathering of bedding straw and manure from a dairy herd of 45 plus a dozen or so followers never managed to do more than get hot. Prior to DEFRA getting excited about disease transmission, it was the traditional disposal method for small deadstock. When dung was loaded and spread by hand, I remember finding a composted calf! All that was left was the grass contents of the rumen. Presumably preserved by some chemical magic.
The agricultural community are waiting for the *disappeared* Pole to turn up when some dung is spread in a future episode of the Archers:-)

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Used to be largest single cause of farm fires - and caused a few deaths too.
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bert

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On 23/09/16 20:46, Tim Lamb wrote:

I've forked one and found ash in the centrer. That was grass cuttings from an acre and a half.
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Sure it was ash? The residue from fungal (I think) attack can be a light coloured powder. I sold some stored hay at auction years ago. When the buyer started carting the stack he showed me where some damp bales had heated causing a plume of ashy discolouration in the layers above.
The only *accidental* hay fire here was thought to be triggered by a spark from a tractor exhaust on *overrun* carting grain in the nearby lane. The timing was right, no one was seen running away and there was some doubt about the *fit for storage* quality of the hay. The phosphine gas explanation was put forward by the loss adjuster employed by NFU Mutual.
Curiously, cattle love to eat the partly composted edge of bales that have been stored in contact with the soil.

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On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 20:46:39 +0100, Tim Lamb

My understanding of rick or bale fires is that bacterial fermentation gets the warming process going, but the bacteria are killed off above say 80C by simple sterilisation. Above that temperature, slow oxidation takes over, which also generates heat, and the oxidation accelerates as the temperature rises* until eventually charring occurs and in extreme cases the rick or bale bursts into flames. Moisture content has to be within a certain range, neither too wet nor too dry.
*rule of thumb: reaction rates double for every 10 degrees centigrade rise in temperature. See Arrhenius' equation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrhenius_equation
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On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 09:11:11 +0100, Tim Lamb

It's auto ignition temperature is very low so it ignites in the presence of air. I was given the presence of silane or phosphine as the source of ignition of swamp gas (methane) as in will o' the wisp, a phenomenon I have never witnessed.
AJH
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On 23/09/2016 09:11, Tim Lamb wrote:

I agree it is unlike to be the same mechanism as hay.
Hardly the best ever sources, but perhaps there is more to the idea of spontaneous combustion in a tumble dryer than I had thought. But very much pointing at things like oil left on clothes. The issue of power-cuts seems more important - for if you lose power the machine cannot then follow a safe cool-down process.
http://doubtfulnews.com/2013/11/spontaneous-laundry-combustion/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3230732/Could-laundry-burn-house-Fire-started-washing-spontaneously-combusted-folded-away.html
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So are they saying that it is merely the already warmed washing that is the risk? How can that possibly be the case. Where would the energy come from if its off either through a power cut or its turned off. Brian
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On Friday, 23 September 2016 08:40:10 UTC+1, Brian Gaff wrote:

In a pile of hot laundry the heat can't escape. Bacterial action/oils and greases oxidising adds to the heat.
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On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 09:20:25 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote:

Also, as soon as the power is cut the airflow stops and the smallish amount of residual heat in the element(s), if the cut happens while the heating is on, further heats the load. It's a bit like turning off the water/power in an electric shower - the kettle boils.
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