Trains and fares

[Dave Liquorice]

Hear, hear. Simple things, like a "return" always being cheaper or the same as two "singles". "Peak"/"Off peak" is a reasonable provided the hours are consistent over the network, "Advanced" maybe, but penalises those that suddenly need to travel. A lot of the problem stems from the "Anytime" option, you don't get that with coaches, planes etc. You book a seat on a particular bus/flight that leaves on a specified date/time.

Agreed.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find different train operators getting charged different amounts by National Rail for use of the same tracks. If only because a 2 unit local train doing 60 mph isn't going to hammer the track as hard as full size 125 going flat out...

[Theo]

- but if you need a receipt and your bank statement isn't enough, I think you'd need to register for an account.

You could also just buy a paper ticket (eg Travelcard) - costs more, but wastes less time on the accounting.

Theo

[Theo]

Simple isn't always... simple.

Yes, as long as that means a single is half the price of the current return, not double the price of the current single.

That doesn't work - off-peak is designed to spread the load from busy to less busy periods. Like the road network, congestion happens in different places at different times. If you apply blanket rules, some journeys become astronomic and non-viable, and on others it doesn't mitigate the congestion.

(Consider travelling from Aberdeen to Penzance - you'll pass through two 'peak' periods. Should the whole journey thus be 'peak'?)

BA will sell you a flexible ticket that allows you to get on the next plane, subject to a seat being available (not needed on a train, where people can stand). Nobody gets upset that it's 10x the price of the no-changes/no-refunds ticket bought months ahead.

We could move to a advance-booking model for all train ticketing, but it wouldn't be very popular.

Indeed so. Every vehicle has its price.

Theo

[Dave Plowman (News)]

If you decide to regulate all fares in such a tight way, there will be no competition between providers. Making the only real reason to have such competition even more pointless.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Anything interesting?

It's all very easy these days. But do make sure you use the same card for in and out. I'm told. ;-) I have a Freedom pass which works contactlessly just fine. A debit card should do the same.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Oh. No its far far worse than that.

If yuo are - say - operating a 'social' line from York to Doncaster, your franchise will come with a subsidy, and if a few of your trains go on to London, the tickets may well be as little as £20.

but IF you want a commuter York to London franchise, you will pay millions for it. And your customers will pay over £100 to do the run

Its a ghastly mishmash of Left V right policies.

[Terry Casey]

I don't know if there is a difference between credit and debit card statements but if I use contactless in a pub, say, every pint appears as a separate entry on my credit card statement.

As all payments to TfL will onviously be for travel, I don't see why the statement wouldn't suffice as a receipt.

If you've got more than one contactless card, use one for travel (only) and another card for everything else.

[ARW]

I assume that she does not mind how many you have had when she looks at the bank statement?

[ARW]

Now that is interesting.

Back in 2016 I went to London twice to watch Barnsley at Wembley. I already had an Oyster card that some firm set up for me back in 2014 with a fair bit of credit left on it. As the card was registered to my email address I just changed the password when I left them and kept the card and the credit.

I did at the time (2016) ask on the newsgroup about getting a card for the gf who was with me for both matches.

She got the Oyster card and her Brother got two separate Travelcards. She ended up paying less than her brother and ISTR can still get £5 back if she wishes to redeem the card.

Had it not been two days out in London he would have paid less.

The beauty of the Oyster card is that we could just give them to my parents when they went to London for a weekend, use a bit of credit up on my card and a top up Lou's card without them having to use a contactless bankcard that that they did not have.

[Theo]

TfL don't actually make charges as you go through every gate - they note your card number, and then do a backoffice calculation at the end of the day to work out what ticket you should have bought - either a travelcard or point to point tickets. So it may not show up as multiple transactions.

I don't know what name it appears with on bank statements, but (for example) my accounting department wants a receipt/ticket with a date, 'from' and 'to' on it, not a receipt that just said I paid £ XYZ to a railway company for unspecified services.

(In my case, I buy train tickets to London including Travelcard so the problem doesn't arise)

Theo

[Terry Casey]

It isn't a joint account!

[Dave Liquorice]

provided

For the long distance stuff, that follows the old company routes (LNER, GWR, LMS etc), there is only one provider so no competition anyway. Local trains are probably similar, medium distance in areas with a high concentration of lines you might have a choice of train operator.

Even going from one "company" area to another, the chances are you'll start with one operator, change trains and be on another. I suppose the ticket price for the whole journey could vary depending on which of the two operators you bought it from. But that just makes the fares system even more complicated.

[Dave Liquorice]

World Cup.

I'd rather it was a contactless credit card so there is a (small) chance I'll have been paid before I need to pay for the fares. B-)

BTW that's World Cup Athletics at the London Stadium.

[Dave Liquorice]

Jolly good, that's almost sensible. B-)

Card statement isn't really enough. The TfL site does mention that without an account you can still login and see the previous 7 days but mentions of receipts are very few and far between.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Must admit to some surprise you need receipts to that sort of detail. Do you do your own accounts for the ILR?

[alan_m]

They will not regulate all fares to the current off peak amount but visa-versa, all fares will rise to the peak time traveling amount.

[Dave Liquorice]

I'm happy with CC or bank statement I just don't trust the Tax man or VAT man to be happy as well(*). I'm VAT registered and there is a legal requirement to provide a VAT receipt giving VAT rate, VAT amount, sellers address, VAT number etc. It gets muddy with train tickets, as there is no VAT but is that excempt or zero rated?

(*) Though I'd hope it'd have to be a particulary bolshy inspector to not allow a few tube fares when I'll have a hotel booking, train tickets to/from LO and an invoice to the OB company as evidence that it's business trip.

[ARW]

:-)

Just had two pints tonight dear.

[Theo]

Yes, and if the problem is trains being too full, the overcrowding is only improved by making them more expensive.

(given limits on infrastructure that mean increasing capacity is a non-starter is many cases)

Theo

[charles]

our suburban service now has 10 coaches. I can remember whenm the platform length was extended to allow 8 coach trains.