Totally OT BBC PC rant.

How on EARTH can teh beeb carry on like this.

Viz, a brazilain racing driver gets hit on the head by a bit of debris that hits him on the head. This does serious damage. Fiurtunately he had a state of the art crash helmet, and survives.

How does this become a 'high speed crash into the barriers..questions about safety' etc etc. The crash was a total non event. Did zero damage to the driver.

Blimey, there's a woman walking round North Cambridgeshire who woke up 3 days after driving down the Ely road at Milton..a half a lorry brake drum was found in the footwell, and she has a huge cranial scar too prove it. I didn't see BBC coverage of THAT, nor did I see it described as a 'high speed crash'

WHY oh why do tyhey have to turn EVERYTHING into an Elfin safety issue, and ANYTHING to do with cars 'high speed'?

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher
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The first bit I saw on beeb said that he went in to the barrier with his foot hard down on the accelerator. Judging by the tyre marks show in the overhead shot, that was true, as the brakes (and steering) are also accelerators. Given the damage from the impact with the barrier, it did seem improbable that an F1 car on full throttle would survive to the extent that it did.

Reply to
PeterC

On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 23:01:11 +0100, The Natural Philosopher mumbled:

Why don't you find out what you are talking about first before posting such ill-informed crap? He got hit on the head by a 1kg piece of metal at

172mph. That hurts. Even with a helmet.

No damage to the driver eh? Knocked him unconcious, fracture of the skull to the forehead, fracture to the base of the skull, brain contusions, emergency surgery and he's been kept in a medically induced coma for a couple of days because of swelling to the brain. His surgeon is "hopeful" that he'll be able to walk ok again.

I'd hate to know what you think of as damage, if that's zero damage..

Mike P

Reply to
Mike P

Other than nearly killing him and giving him permanent eye problems that will probably prevent him racing again. Why am I not surprised that you have no idea about what happened?

Maybe the absence of a cheap gravel trap is the problem?

Reply to
dennis

Hello NP, You make a VERY good point! I suffered memory loss for one year when I went through a car windscreen. It felt like the worst hangover one can ever get (3 days!) but they gave me no pain killers. My dear mother does not even remember I had memory loss (because I did not tell her).

Worst bit about the media was they said I was 13 years old, I was 17 years old! They never get the facts in the way of a good story!!

So the rest is history, and I managed to do some useful work for memory damaged people ...still working on it.

Lyn

Reply to
Lyn

In message , "dennis@home" writes

Was he driving too fast, dennis ?

Reply to
geoff

Spring impact at 162mph car speed, tyre wall impact at 62mph, so Felipe managed to scrub off 100mph by braking.

Yes the engine could be heard racing after the impact, but remember that an F1 engine idles at 4000rpm or so.

Reply to
Brian Morrison

Gravel traps have gone out of favour, the car tends so skate over the top of them. A large amount of tarmac seems to do much better in slowing down a skidding tyre.

Reply to
Brian Morrison

what was the speed limit?

Reply to
dennis

Sort of the same here - went through a windscreen at 80 mph when I was

13 - got my age wrong and reported that my mother had died
Reply to
geoff

& you could always just build a bigger tyre wall for the cars. Somehow I expect any serious deceleration after you've fractured your skull is going to be bad for though.
Reply to
Duncan Wood

It depends on if you are trying to stop a car that is under control or not.

Reply to
dennis

The vast majority are when considering motor racing, at least to some degree.

Reply to
Brian Morrison

In message , "dennis@home" writes

Limits determined by the laws of physics

but should he have been travelling more slowly, in the knowledge that a suspension spring might just fly up and hit him in the head

maybe there should have been a speed limit on that stretch just for that reason

Reply to
geoff

Would a plunger have saved him?

Reply to
The Medway Handyman

Eh?

We are at the limit of helmet design assuming the shell is the ideal balance of carbon, kevlar etc (likely from Senna's accident!) and the foam is ConFor which is the best energy absorber as long as temperatures are above about 12oC (likely sat on someones noggin).

So the most likely change, long suggested & long discounted, is to "F111 bubble the cockpits". However that reduces one injury risk (debris & car in the face re open wheel contact stacking cars), but you potentially introduce a significant thermal load on the driver for the race which increases other risks. Most closed-cockpit "World Cars" have serious heat exhaustion problems despite a silicone hose as big as a dryer's stuffed right in front of the driver's face.

Whilst the driver did not steer, I think he did brake - the tyres can be seen momentarily stopping & restarting as ABS kicked in on the runoff area. It may be he couldn't brake effectively or simply had his foot on the brake pedal and engine braking deceleration in an F1 car is enough to push the pedal. Gravel traps are a problem if you hit them sideways (which is very likely in a tail-heavy F1 car) because they will induce a barrel roll. Humans will tolerate 120G+ in a full

6pt harness, 40-55G in a conventional safety belt, but just 10-15G in a vertical impact. That tyre wall was a lot better in depth than those about 20yrs ago and was hit head-on with alloy or kevlar honeycomb front crush-box of an F1 car. Kevlar crumples from the point of impact unlike steel which crumples less predictably some distance behind greatly increasing the risk of entrapment. It appears the damage sustained by the driver was, essentially, from road debris.

World Sports Cars can have their moments, re Mercedes airborne takeoff flip many years back. Motor Racing is vastly safer than it was, deaths were not just routine but expected throughout the season.

Reply to
js.b1

That's about as accurate as John Watson's assertion that Massa was doing

170kph and the spring was *coming at him* at 50kph, so 'the closing speed was over 200kph'.

How a spring from Barrichello's car travelling at 170kph and in the same direction as Massa's can suddenly lose that 170kph and gain a further

50kph in the opposite direction after bouncing down a clear track beats me.
Reply to
F

Would water traps work any better. Thinking of shallow pools of water which car drops into in crash situation such as the area where Massa crashed the tyre wall.

The only gravel trap I've seen on a main road is on the steep approach on A46 to Bath in Somerset. For those who are interested;

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Dave.

Reply to
Dave Starling

In message , js.b1 writes

Who wants to see a zero risk event ?

Thankfully Gordon Brown doesn't run F1

They are today's gladiators

It's like expecting zero casualties in Afghanistan

Reply to
geoff

Read it again. Zero damage from the 'high speed crash' is what he means. And the OP actually said "...hits him on the head...does serious damage".

The damage was done by the 1kg piece of metal, but the BBC are implying it was the high speed and hitting the tyre wall that did the damage. Sloppy journalism.

Reply to
Bob Eager

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