I'm in the Netherlands at the moment, looking at a piece of equipment (a hi-fi amplifier) and the mains sockets.
The amplifier has a "This appliance must be earthed" label on it. The mains sockets, apart from the ones in the kitchen, have no earth connection.
Are the Dutch supposed to listen to their hi-fi in the kitchen or something?
It also seems odd to me that I can plug earthed plugs into unearthed sockets. What could possibly go wrong?
Daniele
There is a nib on no-earth sockets so the earthed plugs won't fit.
There is indeed a nib (two in fact). However, the nibbed plugs (type F) fit very happily into the unearthed sockets (type C).
Daniele
replying to D.M. Procida, Iggy wrote: Nope, you're just the "lucky" recipient of a poorly updated place. Some people hire others called Electricians to fix such situations. But, you and the appliance are already on Earth, so I'm not sure the expense would be justified. I know I need a good jolt every once in a while and I know the appliance doesn't mind sharing some sweet nectar. However, yes it must only go in the kitchen due to a April 27th proclamation. "Nothing can be made with love without music, especially loud music"...I believe the quote was...immediately followed by something about another round of Jenever and Heineken, whomever they are or whatever that means.
What are the nibs for then?
Decoration? Aerodynamics? Enhanced pleasure? Honestly, I'm a bit baffled.
I'll do some research on whether Dutch people experience higher rates of electrocution.
Daniele
I would expect any effect of the plug/socket combinations to be vastly outweighed by the effect of the Dutch people's intelligence and nous.
Ah - perhaps the plug/socket combinations is part of a cunning plan to ... :)
I read the thread title as "This apprentice must be earthed" and was surprised that it wasn't posted by ARW.
I see from that this actually appears to be a common combination.
Apparently, "in the Netherlands and Sweden it is still common to find them [i.e. unearthed sockets] in "dry areas" such as in bedrooms or living rooms."
If there's one thing I've learned not to make assumptions about it's what happens in bedooms.
Daniele
Sounds like somebody is covering their own backs to me.
In the old days too many earths were also bad. I have never come across any modern hi fi stuff that had to be earthed here in the UK indeed most has two core mains leads. The only one I found that did was a JVC pro model graphic Equaliser, but as it was in a wooden box and the front panel was metal but not joined to any earth I never did see the point. In the old days of Valves though most stuff did have three core leads.
Brian
Who knows but this has to be a world wide issue as if you look inside some hi fi, the one I saw was marantz, but it had a definite earth inside the case, but the cut out for the three pin connection on the back of the amp was covered by a plate containing a two core figure of 8 type socket. The earth ended in a connection block and appeared to go so somewhere under th3e pcb. I'm thinking that most of these things are double insulated in any case so maybe in some countries they go through the motions of adding an earth but the actual transformer is still double insulated in some way. Increasingly amps seem to be going switch mode psu with ridiculously small ferrite cored little transformers running big amps. Brian
No they wear red underwear just for fun. Brian
My amp has a mains inlet for a kettle-style lead, but it only has L and N pins, so even if you use a C13 or C15 lead instead of the supplied C17 lead, it will not connect to earth.
====snip====
AOL :-)
I thought hi-fi amps were the last bastion of mains transformers, often toroidal. All mine have been.
The Dutch have a concept of earth-free rooms where there is supposed to be no exposed earthed metalwork, and can have unearthed sockets in such rooms. Don't know if that is still allowed in new installs, but it exists in installations around.
By observation (although I don't know about rules), PAT testing must be non-existant in Dutch hotels too.
Do they think that you can touch a live wire with impunity provided you aren't earthed? What about capacitative earthing, i.e. just being near something earthy?
I don't really understand that. The apartment I'm in was built in 1996.
The sockets in the kitchen are practically *in* the sink, by the way. They're earthed, but those elsewhere in the same room (the kitchen/dining room/sitting room are effectively the same room) are not.
The unearthed sockets are nearly all within touching distance of radiators.
I'm just really puzzled about what actually happens in the Netherlands, when people buy or acquire items that ought to be or must be earthed. As far as I know, the Dutch aren't regularly electrocuted.
Maybe the Dutch electrical system simply dismisses the small risk that makes manufacturers put "This appliance must be earthed" stickers on their devices in the UK.
I simply don't know.
Daniele
The theory I've heard via the French is that you are more likely to be elec trcuted vai earth in a bathroom than from teh live wire as live wires arent l normally exposed in bathroom. So if any fault appears anywhere in the res t of the property and there is something wrong in the earthing all the eart hing point may well go live, this means that any earth points such as plug holes pipes and tapes would become live.
I've seen this happen in london after a friend called me saying she thinks she's feeling electricity when taking a shower. The insinkerator(SP) had fa iled/faulty earlity that week so I checked that out first and the woring on that was at fault and teh earth lead was touching the live lead and it appeared that t he whol e falt wassn't earthed, even the hot water raidaitors on the wall w ere live when I scratch the paint of and I nused a neon screwdriver and the n a meter showed they were LIVE, so were the saucpans on the gas hob! So I can understand the logic behind not earthing places like the bathroom , but that deosn't mean I agree with it.
The 'nibs', as you call them are the metal sprung earth side contacts which are a feature of the Schuko plug/socket and clearly visible here:
or
The two keyways on either side engage with the plug before any contact is made and ensures that the plug & socket are correctly aligned.
In this picture of the moulded modified Schuko connector fitted to electrical goods, one of the side earth contacts can be seen:
or
This connector also features the female earth contact to fit French sockets with the projecting earth pin, thus the connector fits both Schuko and French sockets without requiring a change of connector.
However, a feature of both systems, as already stated for Schuko, is that earthed plugs also fit unearthed sockets.
Paradoxically, unearthed French plugs will not fit earthed French sockets unles a dummy hole to accomodate the earth pin is provided.
This must have been a particular problem when earthed sockets first started being installed in France and Belgium in significant numbers.
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