The legalities of putting sharp and pointy things on the top of walls/gates

[Tom Woods]

Ive recently had trouble with people (kids as far as i know) coming into my back garden and causing trouble. My house backs onto a council garage area and my drive (to the rear) is currently open to the road and the rest of the garden only had a 3 foot wall round it.

I have now just about finished enlarging the wall to 6 foot and am about to make some big gates.

If i wanted to put something sharp spikey and painful on the top of my wall or gates where do i stand? Are there any legalities involved in this?

I dont want to get in trouble because some little scrote cut his hands open trying to climb over my wall.

Can I just do as i like?

[Alex]

getting into trouble will be exactly what will happen,you could use anti vandal paint it never sets used extensively by councils

[Tom Woods]

There seem to be plenty of commercial premises that i pass that have broken glass set in the top of the wall or barbed wire ontop of the fences, and that galvanised metal fencing with the 3 pronged sharp tops looks pretty nasty and is fairly common.

Since i've spent every evening for the last 2 weeks at home sitting watching the garden incase they come back and i get more footprints on the car roof I would almost be prepared to get in trouble so i could relax or go out for the night.

[Tom Woods]

To somewhat answer my own question:

cat deterrant that also deters humans.

[News Groups]

"Protecting against Trespassers. Traditionally owners have put deterrents to trespassers on their wall or fence and if it is a party wall just on their side. You will often have seen spikes or broken glass or barbed wire on the top of walls. However, if the wall/fence borders the public highway, then the local authority has powers to protect the public by having the deterrent removed if it thinks it could cause a danger to highway users. If the deterrents causes a nuisance or by your negligence injures a passer by, then they may be able to sue you. Err on the side of caution because if the deterrent is considered to be excessive you could open yourself up to a criminal prosecution for an injury caused." Source:

Also ask in uk.legal.

[Dave Fawthrop]

|!On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 00:19:03 -0000, "Alex" wrote: |! |!>getting into trouble will be exactly what will happen,you could use anti |!>vandal paint it never sets used extensively by councils |!>

|! |!There seem to be plenty of commercial premises that i pass that have |!broken glass set in the top of the wall or barbed wire ontop of the |!fences, and that galvanised metal fencing with the 3 pronged sharp |!tops looks pretty nasty and is fairly common. |! |!Since i've spent every evening for the last 2 weeks at home sitting |!watching the garden incase they come back and i get more footprints on |!the car roof I would almost be prepared to get in trouble so i could |!relax or go out for the night.

I have seen new razor wire, round commercial premises, seriously dangerous.

[Dave Fawthrop]

|!To somewhat answer my own question: |! |!

|!|!a cat deterrant that also deters humans.

Any self respecting cat would carefully put its paws *between* the spikes.

[Tony Williams]

Yes there is one in town here. I wondered how they were able to get away with putting up such a dangerous mantrap and was told that one of the conditions was a 24/7 guard on the premises, with cctv monitoring all such fences.

[nightjar]

Anything that could cause injury or harm to a passer-by is illegal. That is generally taken to mean anything that could cause injury or harm and is not at least 2.5m above ground level. Anything that is at least 2.5m above ground level will be illegal if designed or intended to act as a trap. Anti-climb paint would normally not count as a trap, but barbed wire might. However, as you can't put up a wall or fence more than 2m (or 1m if it faces a highway) high you would need planning permission to put the deterrents up that high.

Colin Bignell

[David Hansen]

On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 08:18:00 -0000 someone who may be "nightjar" wrote this:-

Ah, so fish ponds and plants with spikes are illegal.

[Dave Fawthrop]

|!> I have now just about finished enlarging the wall to 6 foot and am |!> about to make some big gates. |!>

|!> If i wanted to put something sharp spikey and painful on the top of my |!> wall or gates where do i stand? Are there any legalities involved in |!> this? |!>

|!> I dont want to get in trouble because some little scrote cut his hands |!> open trying to climb over my wall. |!>

|!> Can I just do as i like? |! |!Anything that could cause injury or harm to a passer-by is illegal. That is |!generally taken to mean anything that could cause injury or harm and is not |!at least 2.5m above ground level. Anything that is at least 2.5m above |!ground level will be illegal if designed or intended to act as a trap. |!Anti-climb paint would normally not count as a trap, but barbed wire might. |!However, as you can't put up a wall or fence more than 2m (or 1m if it faces |!a highway) high you would need planning permission to put the deterrents up |!that high.

Farmers still put barbed wire next to a public footpath at less than 1 m high. Maybe ordinary barbed wire has an exemption. IANAL

[Dave Plowman (News)]

It would seem you're ok to put a visible spikey top of some kind - barbed wire or those rotating types are seen everywhere on industrial premises. What would be dodgy is broken glass etc which isn't visible from the ground.

[Dave Fawthrop]

|!On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 08:18:00 -0000 someone who may be "nightjar" |! wrote this:- |! |!>Anything that could cause injury or harm to a passer-by is illegal. That is |!>generally taken to mean anything that could cause injury or harm and is not |!>at least 2.5m above ground level. Anything that is at least 2.5m above |!>ground level will be illegal if designed or intended to act as a trap. |! |!Ah, so fish ponds and plants with spikes are illegal.

I am about to plant prickly species roses and a border ?marker? Perhaps OP should consider replacing the wall with prickly roses, or adding a row of other prickly plants inside the wall. They are garden plants officer ;-)

[Tom Woods]

yeah, im not sure it would stop a cat (I dont mind the cats in my garden anyhow!), but it looks like it might put a person off.

[Tom Woods]

I would prefer a hedge to a wall - but the wall is much more 'immediate'!.

I am wondering if there are any climbing plants i can grow over the top of it that are spikey or unpleasant in some way?

[Tom Woods]

Yeah - until the day when one of them actually tries it, then I think I may just either stick with the bare wall (and hope that the 6 foot drop puts them off) or maybe run just a line of normal barbed wire along the top.

[Rob Horton]

Grow Pyracantha up your wall. It looks good, grows fast and like it's popular name (fire thorn) suggests, is really very, very painful when it's thorns prick your skin. I can personally testify to that

it is within your boundaries I can't see it being a problem. Not sure about the gate. maybe smear the top of it with anti vandal paint. Just make sure it is above the minimuk height and the signs are displayed.

us know what happens.

[Dave Fawthrop]

|!On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 09:22:11 +0000, Dave Fawthrop |! wrote: |! |!>On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 08:35:31 +0000, David Hansen |!> wrote: |!>

|!>|!On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 08:18:00 -0000 someone who may be "nightjar" |!>|! wrote this:- |!>|! |!>|!>Anything that could cause injury or harm to a passer-by is illegal. That is |!>|!>generally taken to mean anything that could cause injury or harm and is not |!>|!>at least 2.5m above ground level. Anything that is at least 2.5m above |!>|!>ground level will be illegal if designed or intended to act as a trap. |!>|! |!>|!Ah, so fish ponds and plants with spikes are illegal. |!>

|!>I am about to plant prickly species roses and a border ?marker? Perhaps OP |!>should consider replacing the wall with prickly roses, or adding a row of |!>other prickly plants inside the wall. They are garden plants officer ;-) |! |!I would prefer a hedge to a wall - but the wall is much more |!'immediate'!. |! |!I am wondering if there are any climbing plants i can grow over the |!top of it that are spikey or unpleasant in some way?

Brambles? No *not* brambles they are a weed in gardens, and impossible to eradicate :-(

[Rob Horton]

Grow Pyracantha up your wall. It looks good, grows fast and like it's popular name (fire thorn) suggests, is really very, very painful when it's thorns prick your skin. I can personally testify to that

it is within your boundaries I can't see it being a problem. Not sure about the gate. maybe smear the top of it with anti vandal paint. Just make sure it is above the minimu height and the signs are displayed.

us know what happens.

[Tim S]

10 years ago, when I lodged with someone on a council estate, the local plod advised him that some carpet gripper strip (the pointy metal ones) nailed along the top of the fence might be helpful. It worked. Along with the barbed wire and broken milk bottles in the hedge. It wasn't a dangerous estate, in fact most people were quite nice. But there were a *lot* of pikey kids.

Cheers

Tim