On Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:31:14 +0100, nightjar wrote:
I meant the sort of wooden grille-type covers you get for prettifying rads
in houses. Obviously they'll cut down output a lot but in the main area
concerned the rads would still cope if the room weren't haemmoraghing
The idea was to minimize the length of the blended water pipework,
because it was a greater legionella hazard. You'd use one TMV to supply
a group of fitings.
and Runtal (now Zehnder?) used to be the main UK suppliers of LST rads.
They all looked a bit NHS, 'cos the NHS was the main purchaser. You
also had to ensure that any accessible pipework or valves were
insulated, which was a PITA if the building was not designed for such
special-needs use.a purpose
The application of logic that went into that posting almost reaches
Using proper separate taps, with outlets the size of the inlets.
Hot tap hot water at 60 deg C
Cold tap cold water at 5 deg C
Mix to give at any suitable temperature such as say 40 deg C to wash
Fill with water at sub 40 deg C to rinse
Using mixer tap at temperature between 5 deg C and say
Fill with water at 40 deg C
Fill with water at sub 40 deg c to rinse
The usage of water and the energy used is exactly the same in both
cases. The key difference is the proper taps without crappy aerators
and thermostatic limiting will fill the bowl/sink/bath quicker and
give you proper 60 deg C hot water or proper near ice cold water when
you need it.
So I say stuff the nanny state, thermostatic taps are yet another
bloody stupid foreign idea - about as useful as a fart in a spacesuit
or a combi in a typical household.
Of course up in Yorkshire we'd just wash with 5 deg C water.
Either you're being obtuse or I didn't explain clearly. Despite the
glaring improbability of the latter I'll give you the benefit of the
doubt :-). What I meant was that you could wash your hands under a spray
of warm water without filling the basin, using far less water and energy
That sort of makes sense - apart from the fact the hot water will
probably have cooled since the last use, maybe even down to room
temperature and all you will get is something slightly warmer than the
raw cold supply. Unless you instantly heat at the tap I can't really
see water usage falling. Seeing as thermostatic shower valves at
hugely greater prices fail to stop an average combi from alternately
freezing and near scalding due to "other tap usage" I can't see a 30
quid TMV having much chance. :)
True, but even so the chill effect of a spray is less than that of a
running tap so a lot of times people will be happy to wash under the
tepid/cool/cold water rather than wait for it to warm up. Even so I
think there's room for improvement long-term in the infrastructure: with
mains-pressure H & C water supplies and low-consumption spray taps there's
no need for 15mm pipework: runs could be in 10mm saving a lot in dead-leg
runoff. One could even envision lagged pipe (perhaps lagging ready-fitted
on the roll) for convenience and encouragement of installers. Of course
that wouldn't happen overnight but it's a direction worth moving in.
I'm just saying that for the relatively modest level of technology and
expense it seems like a good water and energy saving measure at a time
when the planet we're attempting to conserve for our children could do
with all the help it can get in these departments.
 and not just Yorkshire-folks: when I were a lad in Wales we'd often
wake up to frost on the inside of the windows.
 assuming plastic pipework here: again, less cooling and more
compatible with current construction practices.
 most of the price of taps is markup: compare the prices in posh
bathroom showrooms, sheds, Screwfix/Toolstation and on eBay. You can get a
quite decent thermostatic shower mixer valve from the online sheds for
half the price of a pair of fancy-looking but otherwise bog-standard basin
No, I would have been able to smell one of *their* stupid ideas a mile off,
BTW, it *was* a female Labour MP, however disappointing that might be to
some of you.
It's useful to be able to predict the likely direction of the stupidies of
adherents of different polical parties, because every few years you have to
decide which bunch of morons you're going to vote for.
Beside which, slapping-down unthinking, automatic political correctness is
more fun than talking about valves.
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