Switch orientation

on 19/01/2022, Tim Streater supposed :

Only for isolators, MCB's and RCD's - they must be down for off - reason being if they were up for off and something happened to fall on them, they could be turned on. Individual switches can be anyway you like, in fact two way switches can be up for off.

A few years ago Grand Designs showed the very first German Huf House being built in Surrey. I'm sure I saw a shot of the kitchen being finished and the switch on the UK 3-pin sockets was arranged horizontally, i.e. left/right.

Which was why I mentioned a single-switch circuit :-)

The Winky article "Light Switch" seems to insist that European switches are UP for ON like the US but that's not my recollection at all. But then it also mentions the UK and Ireland as the reverse (as if somehow the UK and Ireland are not in Europe).

If you use a ceiling mounted pull switch, which way is up?

I know that German switches are the opposite way to ours - both from visits and from my parents owning an imported Taunus Mk5, which was identical to a Cortina Mk5, but had the fog-light and hazard light switches working the opposite way up.

The point is that switches should always be in the usual orientation, so that in an emergency there is no thinking involved to switch them off. Left/right would require a training programme for every user.

I was going to say, the one for my hall lights is two way so you can have it either way. As for side to side, why would you want that. I used to get confused enough with push button ones and those touch plates with or without dimmers. Brian

If the light isn't in the state you want it to be, flip the switch ... training over.

Indeed. Though the number of times I've operated a light switch through habit during a power cut, then tried to remember whether I've operated it an odd or even number of times, and what state it was in when the power failed. First World problems

They were using some variant of UK sockets fitted into German faceplates (which fit circular back boxes)

Owain

You come to a light that isn't on. You flip the switch. It still doesn't work. But which way is on? Other lights are working, so it's not a power cut. How should you leave the switch so the fitting is safe for when you change the bulb?

That's where the convention is needed - when it isn't obvious which way is on and off from the state of the light.

Certainly not the case for my house in southern France, but they do use different sockets from northern France, so experiences may vary, even within the same country.

I can control my hall light from three different places. Each can be either position for the light to be on. Not that I would consider it unsafe to change a light bulb with the power still on.

Mine is the same but when I wired it I made sure that the light was off IF all three switches were in the off position. That way I can always get it to a known safe state.

I wouldn't rely on switch orientation in such a situation.

My three-way hall lights are similar, but lights are off when all three switches are down! Perhaps I should just unscrew them and turn them through 180°. The loft light is up for on. Installed by the same electrician. Perhaps he had a problem with up and down. He certainly had a problem with earth and neutral!

I have a recollection that some switch orientations - maybe in cars ? - were due to the possibility of mechanical vibration causing the mechanism to fail and the switch to fall DOWN. So DOWN had to be whatever was failsafe for that circuit. Which could end up in a right old jumble ?

Growing up in the UK, my experience of all domestic switches is that UP is OFF, DOWN is ON. Whether that's a standard, or convention, or just my experience I don't know.

However I did learn there are some odd "conventions" ? When I plumbed our sinks/bath in, I put the hot taps on the left, to the criticism of the FiL. However SWMBO prefers it that way.

Not a problem in the US, where single action taps are the norm.

That is, in fact, the standard.

How do you do that with two 2-way switches and an intermediate?