Surge Protected wall plate?


Just about every maker of surge protection devices disagrees with you, as a quick google demonstrates.
Example:
http://www.lightningcontrol.com/FAQ%27s.htm

Take a look inside some surge protectors that provide common mode protection then come back and tell me that again.
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Mike Tomlinson wrote:

Whivh has NOTGING to do with surge arrestors sold fr domestic use downstream of an RCD.

Domestic units do not provide such protection.
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partly because it's impossible to do so in a plug-in device - it needs to be designed into the premises wiring and building earthing system. By the time you're out as far as a socket outlet, the earth impedance is too high for common mode spike protection to work.
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Andrew Gabriel
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On Thursday, September 6, 2012 8:36:49 AM UTC-4, The Natural Philosopher wrote: And MOVS are not applied between phase and earth. That would result in instant RCD operation.
Discussion is confused by two completely different devices that, unfortunately, share a same name. An effective protector is from each phase to earth. It never tips an RCD (or GFCI) because the protector looks like an open circuit (disconnected) when a surge does not exist.
Effective protectors are for lightning strikes (and other lesser surges). Effective protectors even have numbers that say it is for protection from lightning - ie 50,000 amps.
Undersized 'profit center' protectors are for tiny surges that typically cause no appliance damage. As others have noted, protection already inside appliances makes that tiny surge (and that tiny protector) irrelevant. Those tiny protectors are rated maybe in hundreds of joules. The surge that can overwhelm protection already inside appliances is something like hundreds of thousands of joules.
A protector for appliance protection is for surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules. Is provided by other and more responsible companies including Keison, ABB, Siemens, General Electric and others. That undersized protector for tiny (irrelevant ) surges is often promoted with brand names such as Belkin and Tripplite. An effective protector must remains functional even after direct lightning strikes. Protectors that are catastrophically destroyed (a potential house fire) or that degrade significantly are ineffective. Are profit centers sold because it happens to have a same name even though it is a completely different device.
An effective protector means surges, such as direct lightning strikes, do not overwhelm protection already inside appliances. Do not even harm the protector. These superior devices, that cost less money, make the 'always required' connection from phase to earth. Only when a surge exists. And too quickly to trip an RCD.
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Except that lightning upstream of my 11KV transformer often trips my RCD, so its hard to see how anything that acts slow enough to absorb a full lightning common mode surge, which patently DOES trip an RCD, can function effectively *without* tripping one.
In short common mode protection MUST be upstream of the RCD.
Domestic surge protection devices are NOT common mode.
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You're responding to a well-known idiot for whom Usenet is a write-only medium and who only ever responds in his own particular dogmatic fashion to posts about surge protection. He probably has a Google Alert set up to email him when a thread such as this one is started.
Search Google groups for w_tom, w_tom1, westom, westom1 AND 'surge protection' before you waste any more time on him.
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Mike Tomlinson wrote:

Yes. And basically who is confusing whole house protection - for which I utterly agree common mode protection is ideal and possible, if probably unnecessary - with what comes in a wall plate. which assuredly is not.
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We look after some communication and radio transmission sites. On those its all down to shunting critical paths and the correct bonding.
I don't think theres one surge arrestor in any of them !...
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On Thursday, September 6, 2012 3:26:24 PM UTC-4, tony sayer wrote: We look after some communication and radio transmission sites. On those its all down to shunting critical paths and the correct bonding. I don't think theres one surge arrestor in any of them!
Of course. Best protection is a short wire to earth; not a protector. Some of the best protection has no protectors. But always has that short (low impedance) connection to earth. Protectors are implemented only when an incoming utility wire cannot connect directly to the earthing electrode. Protectors do not do protection. A protector is a connecting device. It connects (bonds) to earth when the incoming wire cannot be earthed directly. Many facilities have no protectors. But must always bond low impedance to earth. Because earth ground - not a protector - does the protection.
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On 06/09/2012 10:52, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

And a lot of web sites that demonstrate that the LED that informs you that the surge protector is working perfectly is still lit when the MOVs have been removed from the circuit.
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Yes. ;-)
The "surge protection working' lamp was still illuminated on these:
http://jasper.org.uk/Boom.jpg
But you get what you pay for.
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On 10/09/2012 04:19, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

You may be able to get them at the pound shops but they may also be in the unsolicited catalogues pushed through your letterbox at a price that is significantly higher. Price is often no indicator of quality
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On Monday, September 10, 2012 4:29:50 AM UTC+1, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

No, they're all equally useless
N
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On 05/09/2012 12:21, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Indeed - was not suggesting they will achieve much in most cases, but was just highlighting that is what counts for surge suppression in many COTS mains extensions etc.
There are a few applications of them where they can help a little - they are not bad at snubbing spikes resulting from inductive back voltages on switching.
For example, I have a twin tape deck that always used to cause an audible click on any adjacent hifi kit when switched on or off. Adding a MOV to its mains lead dramatically improved it.
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MOV isn't a good solution for regular spikes, because each spike uses up (burns out) a part of the device. When it's absorbed its total Joule rating, it won't work anymore.
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Andrew Gabriel
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On 05/09/2012 15:30, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Probably not a problem in this situation - I doubt its been turned on more than 50 times in the 20 years I have owned it ;-)
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John.

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According to TNP and the saintly Wikipedia, which of course is never wrong, you are incorrect. I know who I believe.
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On Wed, 5 Sep 2012 00:52:49 -0700 (PDT), Tom Morgan
Surge protection is the biggest marketing con trick perpetrated on the Great UK Public since the year dot. Don't waste your money. If you're really concerned, look into a whole-house solution (not particularly cheap, but effective) or run your sensitive electronics from a good UPS.
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Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

No, thats solar panels and windmills.
It cant be higher than third.
Arguably its behind die=soon vacuum cleaners as well

Which will get blown up instead.
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The benefits of surge absorbers on mains are approximately zero. The downside is fire risk. If you're running on an inductive generator switching a heavy load plus have something relatively sensitive connected, they can help reduce load dump transients - but other than that they're pretty much useless.
They have nowhere near the surga absorbing ability to handle lightning. All appliances need to be and normally are able to handle all real life mains voltage transients, other than lightning. Computers etc have far more protection against this built in than any MOV can offer.
If you still want some I can fit some 50p surge absorbers to some sockets and charge you an extra fiver each.
NT
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