Storing petrol in a metal jerry can - is it better to keep the can partly or fully filled?

[Brian Gaff (Sofa)]

Who is going to inspect your home storage? Its surely a value judgement for yourself. Brian

[nightjar]

Metal cans are best kept full, as that minimises the amount of condensation that can form inside. Condensed water can lead to the can rusting from the inside.

[Andy Burns]

Is that an issue if (as many are) they're powder-coated inside and out?

[Dave Liquorice]

On the basis that water vapour molecules are smaller than hydrpcarbon ones thus will get through smaller holes, driven by atomspheric (or warm/cold) pressure variations?

Will enough water vapour get into a nominally "sealed" fuel can to be a problem?

[Andy Burns]

I presume Colin was saying it could get into a part-filled can while it was open

[Dave Liquorice]

I believe so.

The "storage-club-association" part of that URL worried me. Is it refering to storage by a golf club for instance for ride on mowers etc rather than at a domestic dwelling?

If you want 30 l of petrol for the mower (seems an awful lot 5 l will last me a season more or less). Why not side step the issue and have

3 x 10 l metal cans for the petrol and 1 x 20 l metal can for the diesel?

Very significant. The risks from petrol storage are considerablly higher than diesel or kerosene. To be honsest I'm surprised they are using the word "petrol" if they are direct quotes from the actual legislation. Diesel on your cars V5 is refered to as "heavy oil".

[Dave Liquorice]

Recursion: See recursion.

[Dave Liquorice]

Unlikely.

Be aware that some diesel fueled car have a "thing" in the filler that stops the smaller petrol nozzle either going in properly or any fuel dispensed entering the tank. Mine has one but I've not played with it. B-) There should a reset tool for this "thing" it the cars tool kit.

Really depends on how diluted the wrong fuel will end up. A litre into 30 l either way round is probably OK. Fill an empty tank with the wrong fuel and it's don't start and empty/flush the tank time...

[Dave Liquorice]

Bear in mind B&S are American. Most of the tales you see on the net about petrol (aka. "gas" or "gasoline") going stale orginate from the USA. See the ones quoted in this thread, obviously American in origin.

The local licensing authority, part fo the local council. But they probably far more other things to worry about. Your insurance company might be more concerned if you had a fire/explosion due to badly stored petrol. Don't use a wheelie bin as people did during the last fuel shortage. B-)

[Andy Burns]

The "thing" on my previous car had a habit of latching onto the end of the diesel nozzle if you applied a slight sideways pressure, then coming out with it.

[bert]

In article <rbrb8g$qvp$ [e-mail], NY [e-mail] writes

Originally yes, but for some time now an additional test is required to tow any trailer, which includes a caravan. Grandfather/mother/person rights pertain. It's B+E on your licence.

[charles]

This one is from the RAC:

[NY]

Petrol in a wheelie bin? You're joking! No you're not: I can imagine some idiots doing it. Quite apart from having a couple of hundred litres of petrol in an unsealed container, giving off highly combustible vapour, there's also the little matter of the petrol leaching things out of the plastic which will do nasty things to the engine when the fuel is used, and may melt a hole in the plastic allowing those several hundred litres to spread in a thin pool over the garage floor - an explosion just waiting for a suitable spark.

[NY]

I found this video

of a test that 5th Gear did on early-1990s cars, with a warning that "modern cars" would probably suffer more than the ones being tested, due to higher pressure in the injectors. Given that fuel prices of about £1/litre are seen in the opening shot of the forecourt, I'd say that the item was filmed in about 2007 which is when (according to my records of fuel fillings on my various cars) fuel first broke the £1 barrier. It's not the report that I mentioned earlier in the thread, where both cars were coughing, spluttering and belching out black smoke for a long time afterwards. I like the shot of sparks coming from the rear silencer of the diesel car that's fed with petrol: probably a lot of soot being burned off in the exhaust system.

The diesel Astra, L723 LCH, was last taxed in 2010. The petrol Escort, R56 AJW, isn't listed on the DVLA site for some reason. I wonder what happened to the cars after the test: if they were sold after that, did the new owners get a nasty shock when they saw what had been done to them. Likewise, if you had owned one of the cars beforehand, maybe from new as your pride and joy, you might be a bit horrified to see what happened to it later in its life.

[nightjar]

Exactly. When you pour the contents out, they are replaced by air, which contains moisture. It is standard procedure on light aircraft to drain water from the bottom of the fuel tanks during the pre-flight inspection. There is always some, but a part empty tank always has more.

As for the lining of a petrol can, if it is intact and in good condition, it should protect the can from rusting. However, you can't easily inspect it to be sure, so it is safer to assume it could be damaged.

[fred]

I twice files a Mercedes diesel van with petrol and got away with i both times First time I didn't realise what had happened until the engine started to stutter. Towed it home. Syphoned out the petrol. Got the last drop out south of the fuel pump. Filled up with diesel and all was ok Used the slightly diesel contaminated petrol in garden machinery.Bit smokey but fine Second time realised just leaving the filling station so just stopped and repeated the above exercise.

[Dave Liquorice]

Nope:

About 1/4 way down "Fuel horder sentanced". Same story on the BBC as well but with less detail about the containers used. Google doesn't pop up much else but then the 'net wasn't quite so developed 20 years ago...

"Later he told trading standards officers that he had no idea that petrol was so flammable."

I suspect most people don't. I know, I found out by "experiment". As a lad I used to have camp fires down the bottom of the garden. Often used paraffin to start 'em. Pour a bit on, use a match light a bit of paraffin soaked whateever, no fuss, no drama. Then we ran out of paraffin.

I'd been warned that petrol was dangeous so was cautious. Only put about a table spoon full on the pile of twigs, but top back on can, moved it away, light match, when flame was about a foot away from twigs, WHUMPF, whole fire leapt about 6" into the air and fell back, didn't loose my eyebrows but got a singed fringe. Not doing that again in a hurry. B-)

Since tried diesel, had to get the gas weedburner out to get it to go! No way was it going to light with just a match.

[Chris J Dixon]

I think you mean "Recursion: See circular references"

and, naturally, vice-versa.

Chris

[NY]

"Dave Liquorice" [e-mail] wrote in message news: [e-mail]...

Petrol is certainly *very* flammable. (*) I remember being given fire safety training at my first job. The company had a series of huts on a disused airfield, so there was lots of empty space. The fire safety instructor had laid out a couple of flat trays about 1 metre square on the grass. He had a can of petrol and a can of diesel. He poured petrol and diesel into the trays, to a depth of a few millimetres. He then lit an oily rag on the end of a *long* pole, and brought it near the petrol. It was a hot sunny day, so I imagine there was a fair amount of petrol vapour around. This lit when the rag-on-a-pole was about a metre from the tray, and immediately the tray was alight with a lot of flames. It threw petrol over a fair distance, which he allowed to burn for a while before eventually approaching it with a CO2 or dry powder extinguisher to put it out. "Does anyone want to try that with the diesel?" he asked. No-one volunteered. "Go on" he cajoled. "It won't hurt". One of us reluctantly stepped forwards. He handed the volunteer a much shorter rod with a burning oily rag on it. Gingerly he brought it near the tray. Nothing. "Try touching the surface". Nothing. "Stir it round". Nothing - but the flame went out. After relighting it, the instructor pointed a CO2 extinguisher at the surface to blow off some droplets. These burned half-heartedly but still the tray of diesel didn't light. The instructor lit a bit of magnesium and tossed it in, and *finally* the diesel was alight, producing clouds of black smoke. The message: it takes a hell of a lot to light diesel, unless you finely divide it into droplets, but once the droplets go out, its inert again.

I also remember the bit about the flaming chip pan. Again, from a long distance he lit a pan containing about a litre of cooking oil (much less than you'd normally use) and it flamed nicely, with the thickest, blackest smoke I've ever seen. He prodded the pan a bit, to simulate someone picking up and running with it, spilling a bit as they went. The grass caught fire. Then he got a hosepipe and sprayed water at it from a distance. And the thing exploded - even more dramatically than the petrol. The water turns to steam and as this expands rapidly it shoots the burning oil a great distance. He then approached it draping a fire blanket in front of him over his hands (to protect them) and carefully laid it on top, taking great care to put it over the front edge before the back. The flames shot backwards (hence the rule about putting it on the front first!) and then almost as soon as the fire blanket had covered the pan, the clouds of black smoke ceased. The fie was apparently out. After a few seconds of "inactivity" he lifted one corner with his pole - and the pan erupted again. The message: don't pick up the pan and run with it, no matter what your instincts tell you; use a fire blanket or even a *damp* (very well wrung-out) towel, laying it on the front of the pan first; once the fire is "out", leave it alone, dial 999, and get out - do not touch that blanket/towel even though the fire appears to be out.

(*) I was looking at the original 1929 (?) Act of Parliament about the regulations covering the storage of petrol. I noticed that it used the word "inflammable" - capable of being inflamed. That word has long been banished from H&S and fire training, because people genuinely thought that "inflammable" meant "not flammable", the opposite of "flammable". Nowadays "flammable" and "non-flammable" are used.

[fred]

We ran a boat with a 120 gallon fuel (petrol) tank for many years. We decides to switch to adiesel engine and emptied the fuel tank, There was close to 10gallons in it and about 1/2 gallon was water. I can only assume it built up over number of years