Sinster censorship caused by Part P

[RichardS]

Completely fry any RFID circuitry within said document.

May cause additional delay when passing through borders, though.

[John Rumm]

The gummi bear one you could probably even get away with while supervised (unless the super is going to check every finger!)

[John Rumm]

Yes they don't seem to mention that so often ;-) (in fact the conversion process will introduce more errors, so it ought to be less reliable that what we have).

The other one that always amuses me, are the people who think there will be an identity card singular - i.e. something that will replace all other forms of id. They seems to miss the fact that they will still require all the current forms of ID they already have (perhaps with extra cost biometrics and links to big brother database), plus they get the additional ID "Card" as well.

[John Rumm]

wonder how they would go with the question: Govt RIA guestimate cost of a biometric passport is 80 quid. So lets say 120 by the time its not vapourware, and it has had a few billion of our tax pounds back handed into it to keep the price "realistic". Special deal add on a ID card for another 40. Oh lest say 60 for your drivers license. So 220 is all in. Oh and you will need to renew the b'stard things at least every 10 years

oh come on, you will be telling me they dispose of hard drives with sensitive personal data on next.... or the MOD could lose a laptop!

Obviously could never happen;-)

[John Rumm]

Na you can probably keep on driving, since the doctor will probably have to refuse to talk to you without proof if ID ;-)

[bigcat]

nowhere near

NT

[:::Jerry::::]

I know you aren't.

[Joe]

Along with ethnic group, previous qualifications and a load of other stuff. The database is being populated even if access isn't yet in place.

[Mike]

Correct. But as the government would not want to reveal to the judge their reasons for keeping ID cards "for reasons of national security" said judge will rightly take umbrage and strike down the whole thing.

As they did this for holding foreign terror suspects they will have little time for nonsense from HMG when it affect UK citizens - and specifically themselves !

[Mike]

No it won't. Might with old style stuff but modern ones wouldn't even notice it.

[Mike]

You ignore it and wait to be prosecuted in a lower court, appeal and then ask the appeal court judges to strike the case. If they do HMG then appeals to law lords who either support the legislation or more likely throw it out.

[:::Jerry::::]

Then HMG modifies the legislation, taking into account what the Law Lords found wanting in the previous legislation....

[bigcat]

reasonably

Same as with the poll tax, not cooperate. If enough people refuse to cooperate it becomes unworkable. If HMG prosecutes people for walking peacefully down the road, theres gonna be quite an outcry.

Governments do not rush into things like this, because they know if they do it could be a major egg on face incident, resulting in loss of governing power, which is something of prime importance to them. This will all be explored over time to see what they can and cant do and stil remain in government.

It is in the end a balance of power, and government relies on the governed mostly being willing to cooperate. People will cooperate with a lot, but not everything. A party that ceases to take notice of its electorate quickly finds itself unelected.

NT

[:::Jerry::::]

walking

But they won't be prosecuting people for walking down the street, they will be prosecuting people for not carrying their ID card, a slight but important differnace. If there was a law that stated that all drivers when driving had to have their drivers licence with them (as there are in other domocratic countries), with the risk of being prosecuted if they don't, would there be an outcry - hardly.

We shall see, in just over a weeks time....

[Mike]

Oh yes there was. There is a big difference between being British (or at least English) and being from one of the ex-colonies or other parts of Europe. If you remember our passport used to "require and demand" foreigners allowed us free passage through their countries.

Send in the gunboats.

[bigcat]

the actions are identical. Our 2 descriptions emphasise different parts of what is the one same action.

If I open my door today and walk down the road, all is well. If I do that with ID card laws, Im criminalised. Its madness.

not comparable, driving licenses have a valid basis.

NT

[John Rumm]

More likely they will be prosecuting people for not turning up for their interviews to be scaned and fingerprinted....

[:::Jerry::::]

compulsory

refuse

slight

Many laws are madness to those who object to them...

Yes it is.

driving licenses have a valid basis.

No they don't, you do not NEED an licence to be able to drive, they are used solely as a way of 'Policing' who drives.

[RichardS]

hmm, interesting. Why's that? Antenna/circuitry dimensions too small to be affected by domestic microwaves? I suppose it _has_ to be affected and therefore potentially overloaded by some frequency of radiation though.

I see a market developing for shielding passport holders. Nice, pretty silver-plated cigarrette-case type things...

[RichardS]

Driving licenses, passports, switch/credit cards, nectar-type cards, etc are not entirely comparable with ID cards.

Each of these entities are entirely optional - if you don't drive you don't need a driving license, if you never go abroad you don't need a passport. You don't have to join store schemes, and you can opt to pay for your shopping by cash. Data held as a result of these entities is also pretty well dispersed, giving an additional layer of protection against abuse.

The difference with an ID card is that you will have to have it just on the basis that you exist. Worse than that, the government will expect you to pay for this priviledge.

Although not proposed at the current time, compulsion to carry the card will only be a matter of time. It'll only take one more Blunkett of a Home Secretary assisted by a large parliamentary majority, and it'll be in. Without compulsion to carry or produce, the cards are essentially useless for day-to-day identification purposes by the police. Perhaps muggers and terrorists will be compelled to produce their cards before they commit their crimes...