Screws - Wall plugs

I just fitted something to the wall using the supplied plugs and screws and came to the conclusion that the new (modern design) screws are not as good as the old ones as they have less taper and therefore - whilst they cut a thread in the plug - they don't open it out so that it tightens itself into the drilled hole.
It feels like a good case for maintaining a stock of good old number 8 and 10 screws.
Any comments?

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Yes, either use smaller plugs than you're used to or bigger screws.
I think the problems many people seem to have getting good fixings in wall plugs with 'modern' parallel sided wood screws is that they are using the same sizes as they used to with the old tapered screws.
I use yellow plugs with 3.5mm or 4mm diameter screws and, if I want a really strong fixing red plugs with 5mm screws.
I also expect the plugs to be a snug fit in the hole I drill, I expect to have to tap them in gently.

On 13 Dec 2004 10:22:28 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@isbd.co.uk wrote:
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Wot's that in English? B-)
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Yep, I generally go 0.5mm smaller in drill size than they say but it does depend on the size of the screw being fitted. So a red plug gets a 5.5mm drill sized hole for a No.6 screw and I'll try a No.8 but I have a feeling I normally have to make that a 6mm drill. Or it might be No.8/No.10... Adjust on test rules OK.
And I agree with Lurch, the fixings provided are invariably crap. Bin 'em and use your own.

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I only use mm because I have standardised on Screwfix Turbogold and Turbo Ultra and they come in mm sizes.
If I remember correctly 4mm are about no. 8 (I think 8 is a bit more than 4mm).
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A no.8 in a red sounds a bit small to me, I put 5mm in red plugs and I think 5mm are nearer no. 10. With these new screws not being tapered I think you definitely need to upsize your screws a bit or downsize the plugs. The new screws are threaded right to the head as well so theres no smooth part that has to be simply forced into the wall plug.
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Absolutely, one wonders why they bother really, though I suppose many people don't have a 'stock' of screws and wall plugs.

On 14 Dec 2004 09:14:41 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@isbd.co.uk strung together this:
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I usually use 4.5mm as a no.8 replacement, although no.8 is closer to 5mm. I've got a couple of Reisser gold screw trays from Howdens that were a good price, I use those for wood and I found some cheap, but strong, screws for general rawlplug usage from Wickes a while back.
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Depends what plugs you use, with some decent screws and plugs a no.8 in a red plug in a 5.5mm hole is plenty strong enough for just about everything. I use that combination all the time and step up to browns for kitchens\rads\SAB's and that sort of thing.

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I meant small as in too small to make the red plug tight in its hole, not small as in not strong enough. I quite agree that no. 8 or 4mm screws are plenty strong enough to hold anything except huge loads (that's as long as they're tight in the plugs of course).
I guess that my 5mm in red plugs is around the same as no 8 in red plugs. I find in reality though that most of my fixings are 4mm in yellow and that is plenty strong enough for most things.

together this:
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I nearly always use my own fixings as the ones supplied with products are usually some cheap crap that need a weird size drill to fit properly and\or have really crap screws that snap\bend and have the haeds round out at anything more than fingertight.
By the time you've finished arsing around trying to the screw back out again a job that would have taken 5 minutes using your own fixings has taken half an hour to insert, then remove the crap ones and then insert your own anyway.

John wrote:
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The only type of wall plug I've ever found to work consistently are Plasplugs. The wedges on the outside work and stop them turning in the wall, the plasticity is right and they are very tolerant of screw size. If you want to use a very small screw like a 4, shove a match in the centre. Ridiculous but nothing else ever seems to work for me unless the omens are really favourable!
Phil

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Perhaps you were supplied with self tapping screws. These have no taper.
Dave

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Most modern woodscrews don't have any taper.
Hence my oft repeated comment in these "my screws don't hold in wall plugs as well as they used to" threads that one needs to use smaller wall plugs for a given size of screw than one used to.

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I spoke to a chippie today and he confirmed that modern screws are virtually parallel these days. Reason being, that the screw with a parallel form has maximum grip. I assume that this is for insertion in wood only. I always think of a wood screw as a pointy type thing, that gets thicker the further you get to the head, as well as it having a plain shank, about 2/3 the way up its length.
As an aside, I come from an engineering background and a screw is something that is threaded all the way up the body. A bolt has a plain shank before you get to the head of it. Has the wood screw industry gone the same way with parallel screws?
Has there been created a new screw that is only suited to wall plugs? Or has the modern screw and plugs been adapted to accommodate this?
Dave