sale of immersion heater elements - new regs??

Needing a replacement element, I was somewhat surprised to be told by a TLC outlet (A!) that they don't stock immersion heater elements as it is illegal for A1 to sell them & they must be fitted by registered plumbers.
new regs or some misunderstanding?
Elements are still listed on www.tlc-direct.co.uk, though the one I needed (dual element unswitched) - which is in the current tlc catalog - is no longer offered.
What's going on?
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On 22 Mar 2006 15:39:31 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Sounds like bollocks doesn't it . They must be misunderstanding some part of Part Pee ....Did you try phoning TLC to query this .http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Information/contact/ContactList.htm
Stuart
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Stuart wrote:

Quite. The only change (AFAIK) is that since 2004 immersion heaters have to be fitted with a separate latching overheat thermostat. Background reading here: http://www.cibse.org/index.cfm?action=showpage&pageID92&TopSecID 
There are immersion heater elements to buy and fit yourself here: http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plumbing/CentralHeating/d20/sd2708 (Always go for the long-life type as the cost difference is trivial.)
--
Andy

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Did you upset the assistant?
--
*The most wasted day of all is one in which we have not laughed.*

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

If I did, it happenend within the first microsecond I was at the counter. No, I walked in with the old one because I wasn't sure how you measure the length (turns out it is the total length under water, excluding the cap etc) & there didn't appear to be an exact 1:1 replacement in the TLC catalog. Placed it on the counter & without a word from me was immediately informed as stated.
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On 23 Mar 2006 06:20:08 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Didn't you question what you had been told .Are they not selling them to anyone or only to registered plumbers .......as I said it sounds a load of bollocks .
Stuart
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As to see the written notice of that. Should cause a bit of a stir.
Dave
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On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:20:08 -0800, long.ironer wrote:

I suggest that you purchase one from screwfix. The matter is neither subject to Part-P notifications (unless in kitchen or bathroom or special location which it probably won't be) nor to Part-L nor Part-J notifications AFAIK.
Replacing the cylinder is though. 8-(
--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
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Ed Sirett wrote:

Like-for-like replacement isn't Part-P-notifiable even if it *is* in a kitchen or bathroom.
--
Andy

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On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 20:47:02 +0000, Andy Wade wrote:

When does a like for like replacement not become one?
i.e how similar does the heater have to be a like for like? This is of relevance for shower replacement.
--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
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Yep. Even defective wiring as well. New circuits no.
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He must having had a bad day, or something. B&Q etc still sell immersion heaters.
But by your above statement it still looks like you upset the counter assistant.
--
*If you don't like the news, go out and make some.

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On 22 Mar 2006 15:39:31 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Is it not possible that an immersion heater is regarded as being a kitchen/bathroom appliance and hence under part p?
sponix
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wrote:

Sounds like a load of bureaucratic cr**! Does it indicate, interestingly, how over-regulated everything now seems to be over there; where I came from?
We buy replacement elements, thermostats, pressure relief valves etc. from a variety of outlets. I can think of five such within less than 10 kms (population in general area around 250,000) where one would expect to find such items in stock. Canadian Tire Store or Home Depot, being typical.
Simultaneously to this there is a thread of postings on a very similar North American (do-it-your-self) news-group to this one, where we are currently discussing how often it is necessary to self-replace complete electric hot water heaters 'hot water tanks' (in our case that's about three times in 35+ years), replacing 'stop-cock' water valves with quarter turn shut offs and the proper way for the d-i-yer to run wiring through joists etc.
We self built, with two carpenters, the two houses we have lived and brought up a family in during the last 50 years. With never a fire, a leak or a storm problem, in what I would suggest is a severe and demanding climate. An up to date house inspection the other day recommended a couple of minor things, such as a CO detector cos we have asked the insurance company the annual premium cost increase to add an occasional use wood stove, also a second fire extinguisher! Nothing basically at fault with house at all.
Total electrical repairs in this all-electric four bedroom house, for example, have been. Three wall mounted AC thermostats that control the individual electric baseboard heaters in each room. One was changed because of style! One 230 volt 20 amp circuit breaker. The outside mounted electric power meter 'socket'. Facing NE towards the Atlantic less than a kilometre away, after some 30 years corroded. The meter itself is owned by the power company; we own the socket.
Also replaced: The water heater, original plus two replacements. The electric cooking stove replaced a couple of times (we ran a catering company at one time!); the much self repaired dryer is now 46 years old, the washer again the other day, was this time more of a mechanical than an electric problem etc. etc. I noticed a cracked but not currently in use duplex outlet in one bedroom the other day, nothing plugged into it but will replace it as time permits.
Plumbing; originally we had a well and septic, all self installed to Dept. Health standards; now municipal water and sewer. Which meant that all connections had to be turned around and our own trench dug out to the street. No problems with that except that it's about time to start replacing the innards (or at least the washers and rubbers) of some of the more numerous than required hot and cold water shut-offs.
And so it goes; for a big/heavy job one might, especially now in the mid 70s age group, hire a helper although 90% of this house is self maintainable.
Someone has just offered me, later this summer, after they have rebuilt their house and moved back in, a used shed; it's about 10 feet wide by some 16 feet long. A bit big and expensive to move whole, although I've done that before. It looks as though I'll have to disassemble and salvage the material for reuse. Also the location to which it will be moved is not that accessible; and it will also be an opportunity to improve its construction and possibly do away with one smaller shed closer to the house which houses bicycles, winter tyres and wheels for the vehicles, garden tools, snow shovels and a generator. The municipality rule (no permit required) is that it be not closer to the street than the house itself and allows a minimum three feet clearance between any structure and fence, to permit fire-person with hose to get to back of properties.Since that already satisfied, foresee no problems rebuilding it somewhat larger in our back yard. Possibly to store my son's vintage car and thereby free-up the attached 11 by 18 foot garage!
Anyway; best of luck mates. Ex Liverpool 50 years back!
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On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:30:48 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@stuff.com (Sponix) wrote:

Even if it were, then there is nothing in Part P controlling sale of products. In fact relatively little legislation does this - some medical equipment being the only one that springs to mind.
--

.andy


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Andy Hall wrote:

Thanks. I rang TLC as you suggested in your earlier post & the clearly knowledgeable person answering thought A1 must have misunderstood who can do the job (partP etc) as against who can legally sell or buy the kit. He said he'd try to clear the issue with A1.
The dual element version TLC used to sell is now history - discontinued by the manufacturers. Looks like 2-heat immersion elements are out of fashion.
Bearing in mind previous conversations heard/overheard at A1, it has left me wondering whether some campaign literature ex NICEIC or ECA calling for tighter restrictions has been misunderstood. Anyone any access to NICEIC/ECA campaign literature/web site?
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On 23 Mar 2006 14:25:15 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Typically what happens in these trade places is early morning/early afternoon/end of day mother's meetings with the regulars going in and swapping (mis) information. It happens in electrical, plumbing and building ones. The counter staff pick up the latest information, miscommunicate it and so it goes on.
Certainly NICEIC have used their length of time in the market (since the late 14th century) and branding to convince customers that they are the only self certification game in town.
--

.andy


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An explanation for dribble? ;-)
--
*A snooze button is a poor substitute for no alarm clock at all *

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 14:27:14 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"

No need for the question mark.
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flatulence wrote in message wrote:

This is appalling. I really hope this senile person is allowed near sharp things.
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