Ring Main Extension - Done Incorrectly ?

[andy.hide]

We have just moved into a new 1960s house and the upstairs ring main has been extended into the loft by drilling a hole through the wall of the back of a socket in one of the bedrooms into the airing cupboard.

2 X 2.5mm T+E then loops round the loft and back to the socket. So.. in the back of my socket I have 4 pairs of wires attached.

This to me seems wrong. I would have added a junction box in the airing cupboard and then run one of the existing wires to that. I would then loop from there round the loft and back to the socket.

Can anyone confirm if the way it's been done is acceptable. I would have thought that this setup would mean an imbalance in the current travelling round the ring.

Cheers.

[adder1969]

If's it's a double socket individually wired then it sounds fine to me.

[Stuart B]

When you say "2 x 2.5mm " I presume you mean one piece of cable so the "2 x " refers to both ends ?

Dunno about the "technicalities" of imbalance etc but it's not the way to do it IMHO...If possible they should have gone to the socket next to the one you speak of and removed the connecting cable and replaced it with a piece long enough to go round the loft and back to the socket in the airing cupboard,thereby extending the ring .

If that wasn't possible then using a junction box as you suggest would be my next option and doing that now is presumably your easiest way unless you can get to the socket next in line and do as I suggested should have been done in the first place ..

[Stuart B]

How do you mean ,individually wired ? It's part of a ring and another ring has been added to that socket with who knows how many sockets on it . Thats not the way to extend a ring afaik .

[stevelup]

Are all four cables terminated directly into the back of the socket (four wires into each terminal)? If so then that is indeed incorrect.

One of the original pair of wires should be joined using crimps to one of the new pairs of wires. The remaining old and new pairs should then be terminated into the back of the socket.

Steve

[Andy Wade]

It is wrong, unless there's only one single or double socket in the loft. The extension is effectively an unfused spur and is subject to the rules for same.

That's one option, to enlarge the ring, but be careful to check the overall circuit length to ensure compliance on voltage drop and earth loop fault impedance. Also, when modifying an existing circuit like this in an older installation you need to check that the existing earthing and bonding are adequate to ensure safety of the modified circuit. If any sockets on the circuit are likely to be used for portable equipment outdoors you'd need to add RCD protection (30 mA) if there is none at present.

A second option, possibly easier and adequate, is to turn the illicit extension into a fused spur by adding a fused connection unit.

[adder1969]

If one side of the old ring and one side of the new ring are joined together in one socket, and the other sides of both rings are joined in the other socket then it remains a ring. If however they're all jammed into one connection then it's more of a spur but then i don't see the need for the two runs up to the loft.

[Stuart B]

But that is NOT what the OP aid .He says "We have just moved into a new 1960s house and the upstairs ring main has been extended into the loft by drilling a hole through the wall of the back of a socket in one of the bedrooms into the airing cupboard.

2 X 2.5mm T+E then loops round the loft and back to the socket. So.. in the back of my socket I have 4 pairs of wires attached."

re-read that last sentence

[John Rumm]

Much depends on how they are attached and to what. All to the set of terminals on the socket, not good. To a combination of the socket and a chockie block, might be ok.

[robgraham]

Certainly to me the description sounds as if this is a spur that has been set up as a ring off a ring - ie a 'ring' spur ! ! The OP talks of 4 wires going into the socket :

Nowhere does the description make me think that the 'primary' ring has been opened up and the additional wiring included within this ring.

Firstly this is not acceptable, if for nothing else that it could cause a severe misbalance in the 'primary' ring at this point. A spur is just that - a single branch cable off the ring.

The OP needs to either convert this just to a spur with one socket on it - ie a radial - or incorporate this loop properly within the ring feeding his bedroom area. I will leave it to those who are more up to date than I to state the regulations on how that can be done !

Rob

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Remove the socket. Couple one end of the original ring to the extension upstairs using a suitable choc block. The other two cables to the socket. You now have a normal ring.

[Ed Sirett]

If two of the pairs of wires (int the socket) are nicely joined with a proper crimping tool. If all the earths are properly sleeved and joined If the back box has (a) grommet(s) fitted for the new cable exit(s). If the resulting new ring is still compliant for total cable length (for the given fuse or MCB) and for expected loading and for the served floor area. Then it's probably OK.

[Stuart B]

Must have been tricky getting 4 x 2.5mm cable in to the socket connectors

[Dave Plowman (News)]

There's no need to crimp if the connection is inside the backing box - a choc block will be fine as it's accessible. Might be tight if it's a shallow box, though.

[Ben Blaukopf]

One of the backboxes in my house (not put in by me...) has 5 sets of wires

2 for the original ring. 2 for the ring extension. 1 for the spur.

All done tidily enough, though I scratched my head when I first saw it. Only found it because I replaced the CU and the resistances for Phase/Phase and Phase/Earth didn't add up - they'd married all the earths together, so the earth resistance was about half what it should have been for a straight ring.

Ben