Replacing toilet syphon?

[D.M.Chapman]

Day off work tomorrow so as I'm the only one at home it seems the ideal time to sort out the loo while it's still only hard to flush, and before it becomes impossible :)

Close coupled (I think, cistern sits on the back of the pan with no pipe) toilet - pretty standard AFAIK.

toolstation appear to have two options:

how do I tell which of the two I need? What is the measurement - height of the syphon?

b) is that the correct thing? It looks like it has a large plastic nut on the bottom - how does that work with the cistern? Is there a hollow in the bottom that this will be hidden up in?

c) what's an Epson syphon?

to fit it I'll need to remove the cistern. I assume there is some seal on the bottom that I'll need to replace. Should I get one of and tips before I start? :)

Ta,

Darren

[Adrian Brentnall]

HI Darren

If you can find a 'real' plumbers' supplies place - then yuo may be able to buy just the diaphragm (which is the likely cause of the 'unreliable flush' problem.

I've done this on our two toilets here - process is generally like this...

- turn off the water that supplies the WC

- flush the toilet

- empty the remaining water from the cistern (sponge works well)

- remove the flush handle and associated mechanism

- unscrew the two screws at the back of the cistern holding the cistern to the wall (often easier said than done - a short stubby screwdriver can help)

- undo the two nuts or wingnuts holding the cistern to the pan

- lift the cistern off the pan and sit it on the floor on some olf towels

- undo the large plastic nut, which retains bracket that holds the two bolts that secure the cistern to the pan

- remove the syphon mechanism

At this point - either take the whole lot to your supplier and get a matching replacement, or take out the plastic diaphragm, and get a replacement for that.

Then refit the new / repaired siphon mechanism and 'reassembly is the reverse of disassembly' as they used to say in the Haynes Manuals...

You might need a new big foam washer that the big plastic nut fits into

- or you might be able to re-use the original one

Hope this helps Adrian

> a) how do I tell which of the two I need? What is the measurement - height of

> c) to fit it I'll need to remove the cistern. I assume there is some seal

> ?

[D.M.Chapman]

I suspect it is - but I'd quite like to replace it with a more efficient dual flush syphon if possible. We've been moved onto a water meter so if I've got to take it all apart I might as well take the opportunity to fit one that's a bit less wasteful!

Ah, so this is the thing that toolstation list. Sounds like I shouldn't need a new one of those then.

one of

that price I'll pick one up in case :-)

Darren

[Adrian Brentnall]

Ah - fair enough - our cisterns were dual-flush already ,g>

All depends how easily the old one comes off - it's a big thing, and fairly fragile as well (when you have that big Stilson on the end of it)

- if it's your only toilet then you might want to get a 'spare everything' as insurance...?

> ?

Yes - that's the one.

At that price you could even go for a spare as well !

Good luck Adrian

[The Medway Handyman]

Close coupled is the terminology. If it has a pipe its 'low level'

> a) how do I tell which of the two I need? What is the measurement -

Its the distance between the base of the cistern & the top. Most are 9.5" IME, but do check.

The photo shows a siphon as supplied - they come with the bits for close coupled and low level.

idea :-)

You will absolutely, definately, certainly, 100% need a new doughnut washer. Don't even think about using the old one.

For £2.45 you might as well buy the kit - in case stuff has corroded.

[The Medway Handyman]

90% of the time it is the diaphragm - B&Q and Wickes sell them. However, it might be a split siphon body. Since the parts are cheap & its the same labour to do both, change the complete siphon.

All agreed 100% - but don't whatever you do try to reuse the doughnut washer - almost 100% guaranteed to leak.

[The Medway Handyman]

The ones you are looking at are only dual flush in as much as you can set them to flush one of two different volumes. If you want a true dual flush where you can choose you need something like a Wirquin Jollyflush

sell these as kits so you can replace the flush handle with a push button.

[D.M.Chapman]

Ahhhhhhhhh..... Will go have a look for one of those then. I take it it's designed to replace the old style so the button will just fit through the handle hole?

I seem to remember a friend fitting one yonks ago and needing to open up the hole a bit - my dremel is the other side of kent so that might be tricky :)

Will investigate this morning, ta :-)

Darren

[D.M.Chapman]

Yep, I did :-) The old one was certainly knackered!

ended up fitting one of:

and Q had quite a selection - and none complete. Looks like someone had opened every pack and mixed bits up. Screwfix had that one in stock and it seems to have good reviews...

So far so good, I'm not sure the flush has ever been quite so good :)

"in case stuff has corroded" is a bit of an understatement. One side it took me a while (laying on my back) attempting to work out what had happened to the wing nut. Seems it had largely rotted away. Hardly any "wings" left just a big mess of rust and strangly swollen rubber. Bosch multitool worth it's weight for that - just chopped the bloody thing off.

Thankfully the other side which has even less access was fine and undid ok with a little plusgas to help.

Sorted. Just got a bad back now from laying reaching around the back of the bog!

Cheers all,

Darren

[John]

> B and Q had quite a selection - and none complete. Looks like someone had

I hope you greased the threads so that next time they dismantle with ease.

[D.M.Chapman]

Yep, little bit of copper grease (was all I had around).

Darren

[John]

Even better - well done!