Regarding the holding of dogs.

[T i m]

You do know I didn't write that don't you Bill?

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

<snip>

Damn right, animal killer.

What, by not wanting animals killed when you do, yeah, that sounds right (not).

That's *exactly* what you want ... and do!

<snip>

And what about when separating mother from child, what about the ride in the truck to the slaughterhouse, what about the smell of death into the slaughterhouse, what about he noises from the other animals as they are gassed or the stunning doesn't work.

You really think it's just like it shows you in your Ladybird Book of the farm don't you?

Along with the animal pain, suffering and death, pollution and waste of resources. Agreed.

To a psychopath, I guess it could be twisted to mean that. To a normal person that wasn't in denial and suffering the side effects of their cognitive dissonance, no.

But carry on making a fool of yourself troll, you are doing a great job.

Cheers, T i m

[Fredxx]

For the avoidance of doubt, the difference between you and me, and quite possibly Bill, if I would do my best to stop the practice of lifting an animal, or dragging it by one leg manually whilst an animal is aware of it's surroundings.

So we are agreed you would do nothing to stop the practice of lifting an animal, or dragging it by one leg manually whilst an animal is aware of it's surroundings.

To you, anyone who eats meat is a psychopath. Given we are the norm and vegans are a minority it's not clear what you are saying.

Normal people eat meat. Fanatical vegans who want to force their way of life onto others are by very definitions psychopaths.

[williamwright]

I realised as I sent.

Bill

[T i m]

<snip>

Np.

Given you do obviously care about animals, or dogs at least, can you please explain (genuine question) how you differentiate between say caring, loving and protecting a dog, and 'happily' (assuming it doesn't weigh on your conscious), killing a cow for your lump of steak?

I ask because that sounds like a 'logical inconsistency, caring for one species of animal but not for another, to the point where you would actually kill and eat it?

By comparison, those that are known to eat *anything* (I once heard something said along the lines of one cultural group that 'If it has 4 legs and isn't a table, swims but isn't submarine and fly's but isn't an aeroplane ... they'll eat it', is at least, 'logically consistent?

For me (suffering the same 'logical inconsistency for most of my life) it was a matter of doing what I believe many do and 'prefer not to think about it' (the fact that an animal has to die for us to eat them) or, as others have suggested here, that the whole process is 'ok', 'RSPCA / Red Tractor' <or whatever> assured and that conjured up animals frolicking in natural circumstances but eventually having one bad day. The truth for the vast majority of live stock is that it's far form that 'natural' and *never* humane (you can't take an animals life against it's will, 'humanely' etc) so after cutting out dairy for heath reasons a few years ago and never being a big meat eater, I (we) took the opportunity of trying cutting out meat and eggs completely in Veganuary with our daughter and have stayed on it ever since.

In so doing, we have looked closer into all the goings on behind the scenes re live stock and given the rapidly growing number of non-animal, plant-based alternatives now out there, the whole global warming thing (with WAY more mammals on the planet than their ever were, specifically the *trillions* of live stock we raise to kill and eat, many producing loads of methane (20%, more than all transportation) and huge quantities of waste) and the morality of taking an animals life when it's unnecessary 'these days', it was really a big weight off our shoulders, not being part of the problem any more.

This is especially so when you compare the characteristics of the animals we do seem perfectly happy to eat over here, namely pigs, cows and sheep when it's known that pigs for example are as or are more intelligent than a dog, so it can't be us rating them on that?

We know part of the reason those particular animals were chosen to be domesticated for us to eat, was the fact that they are generally docile but that make it worse that we would use that very trait against them, especially when it comes to slaughter time. Imagine trying to take a new-born gorilla [1] baby away from it's mother for example?

I 'get' if you think we (humans) are in some way 'above' all the other animals we share this rock with ... and that then gives us the right to take their lives, just because we like how they taste but that doesn't seem logical when you also have dogs as companion animals?

Cheers, T i m

[1] folivore (FAH-lih-vor)

Noun

herbivore that eats mainly leaves.

[rick]

what is this to do with d-i-y