Recycling thought

[Dave Liquorice]

As some one mentioned the counties with the highest priority on recycling are those using landfill. Cumbria is very proud of it's very high recycling rate. The real reason is so they can avoid paying rather a lot (millions) in landfill taxes... They don't hide that fact but neither do they shout about it prefering to have some green waffle.

My biggest gripe is the fact the recycling centers vary in what they can and can't take. Most take bottles, tins, paper (bit silly the kerbside box takes those) and card, many are now taking hard plastic, some plastic bags but very few take cartons.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I accept there is global warming and that it IS (largely) caused by man,and that its a very important issue.

However as those who follow my ramblings know, just about every european initiative to tackle it is a complete and utter waste of time: This one is the same.

Its a scam to link waste disposal with resource frugality and enforce recycling: if the materials are in short supply, the price will rise till we find it worth selling our rubbish to e.g. scrap metal dealers.

Apart from toxic wastes, landfill or burning is the correct and proper way to put back in the ground, or air, what came from the ground, or air, in the first place.

All bottles are good for is making hardcore anyway. Or chuck em in the sea and let them go back to being nice pebbles and sand.

Cans are easily sorted via electromagnets..steel ones anyway. Not sure in te tin is recoverable,but its getting valuable.

As far as aluminium cans go, well they will rot pretty quickly anyway. A few hundred years max. Bury them.

[Mary Fisher]

You must be very young, we were doing that in the 1940s, and probably since stoneware bottles were used come to think of it.

Indeed there isn't, but I suspect that most shoppers wouldn't choose to have a scratched wine bottle. You can't help scratches on glass over several uses.

Yebbut in your case, to reclaim the deposit, more staff or time would be needed. I'm not saying it's a bad scheme, just that I doubt it would work as well as you and I would like.

...

How about volunteering?

Some would, because of breakages.

More energy efficient to use lightweight plastic bottles, the weight of glass is responsible for a lot of fossil fuel use.

Mary

[Mary Fisher]

...

The notion of wasting food is abbhorent.

Mary

[boltmail]

Don't you think it's possible that it was the bit where he said "knowing that"?

[Mary Fisher]

Your work?

:-)

I was thinking about your original post during my wallow (we had a clear day yesterday so a lot of hot water).

I tried to think what we do with tins, bottles and bits of plastic. I had to think hard.

We very rarely have tins, they rinse easily with one small swish of cold water. The tins I pick up in the street go straight into our green bin, I admit that I don't wash those. Most are already squashed.

We have plastic milk bottles, I rinse them, again with a swish of cold water. We have no other plastic bottles, glass goes in the crate outside to be taken to the bottle bank when we're going near one. We don't wash them.

Bits of plastic?

I was saddened when Spouse bought some organic cream at M&S at Christmas and saw that the tub wasn't recyclable. Heavens! What's their thinking?

Mary

[Frank Erskine]

Glass ones are better - collected by the milkman when he delivers more milk, so quite EF...

[Clive George]

Works in Norway and Austria.

Actually in Norway they go better than that - plastic bottles and drink cans have a deposit on them too, and the plastic pop bottles are returnable/reusable (they're a little bit stouter than the ones we have here).

cheers, clive

[Clive George]

Um, can't you read? Try not to let your dislike of people blind you to what's been written.

(hint : "knowing").

[DM]

That doesn't really tell you anything about what happens to it. What it does do is highlight the problems of the locals.

On a a modern landfill site what happens to the waste is that it goes into carefully prepared lined cells, which are soon capped.

Then holes are drilled down into the waste and perforated pipes inserted and connected up to a gas collection network.

This is then fed to some generators which produce electricity.

This waste starts producing decent amounts of methane after about 12-18 months and continues for for 20-25 years.

Typical well run landfills, or should that be methane farms, generate 4 to

20 MW, of nice green electricity.

cheers

David

[Mary Fisher]

I agree. We don't have a local delivery and I haven't seen glass bottles in any shop :-(

Mary

[Huge]

Milkman? Delivers?

[Huge]

And in most States in the USA. indeed, you have to all-but fend off the indigent people when consuming a carbonated beverage in public, since they want to snatch the can from you and get the 5c deposit back.

[Rod]

Yes - but...

Around that time I spent a while delivering lemonade in such returnable bottles. Unfortunately, there were two major suppliers in the area - the one I worked for and Barrs. Our bottles could be used by Barrs; Barrs bottles could not be used by us. (The Barrs bottles had a swirl around the upper neck that would not fit our bottling plant.) So we had a gigantic pile of their bottles in our yard that we had inadvertently picked up from various retailers. And they would not come to pick them up - even though we would not have asked for the deposit refunds.

Which rather suggests that defining standards is a rather important part of making the approach work. And probably forcing companies to follow them.

[David Hansen]

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 09:39:10 -0000 someone who may be "Mary Fisher" wrote this:-

Indeed. Such a precise figure implies one of two things. Either there is a source for the figure which can then be verified, or the figure has been made up.

[David Hansen]

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 11:51:41 -0000 someone who may be "Mary Fisher" wrote this:-

Indeed. However, a little food waste can feed the worms in the wormery. Carrot peelings and the like.

[David Hansen]

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 10:37:18 -0000 someone who may be "Doki" wrote this:-

Would you rather everywhere was lowered to the lowest common denominator? Such an approach sounds rather Socialist to me.

[David Hansen]

On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 12:11:08 +0000 someone who may be DM wrote this:-

Incorrect.

That as well.

As it says in the film, linings fail.

An end of pipe solution which does nothing to reduce the volume of waste, indeed it may even encourage more waste like incinerators. That means emissions are involved in creating the waste and transporting it.

It is far better to reduce the volume of waste than put a green fig leaf on it.

[David Hansen]

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 09:58:25 -0000 someone who may be "Mungo \"Two Sheds\" Toadfoot" wrote this:-

I'm quite sure you are capable of looking this up for yourself. However, for once I will indulge in some spoon feeding gives some figures.

[DM]

In what way, did you watch something different? Give some concrete examples rather than simple negation. Do you every give a complete and reasonable response?

Where there is waste then it is better to use it efficiently, methane generation form waste is a good usage.

In fact most landfill sites show remarkably good usage of resources.

1. quarry an area - good business
2. charge people to dump waste in your hole - good business
3. generate electricity from that waste - good business

overall a very efficient use of resources