Recommended screws for skew-nailing deck boards?

[Mathew Newton]

I am currently planning the construction of a deck and have opted to use th e Simpson DBT1Z 'hidden' deck board tie to affix the boards:

As you can see from the following graphic these require nailing in to the e dge of a board (for which galvanised nails are provided) and then butting u p and under the previously affixed board, the latter requiring its free edg e skew-nailing into position:

I can't help but feel that using screws instead of nails might be worthwhil e for the skew-nailing to at least give me the option of being able to pull the boards up at a later date. Why I'd want to do this I don't know, but i f one thing's for certain a reason would present itself if I was to irrever sibly fasten the boards down!

So, I'm wondering if anyone can make a recommendation as to what screw size /type to use? I am mindful of the outdoor aspect, wanting to minimise split ting (the boards are 33mm thick by the way), ease of installation (pilot ho le required?), not wanting the head to be (too) proud and visible through t he 3mm gap etc.

The range on offer at the likes of Screwfix is bewildering to be honest and whilst I've been using their Goldscrews for years for indoor projects I'm wondering if there's something more suitable for this particular job.

Mathew

[newshound]

Simpson DBT1Z 'hidden' deck board tie to affix the boards:

of a board (for which galvanised nails are provided) and then butting up and under the previously affixed board, the latter requiring its free edge skew-nailing into position:

for the skew-nailing to at least give me the option of being able to pull the boards up at a later date. Why I'd want to do this I don't know, but if one thing's for certain a reason would present itself if I was to irreversibly fasten the boards down!

size/type to use? I am mindful of the outdoor aspect, wanting to minimise splitting (the boards are 33mm thick by the way), ease of installation (pilot hole required?), not wanting the head to be (too) proud and visible through the

3mm gap etc.

whilst I've been using their Goldscrews for years for indoor projects I'm wondering if there's something more suitable for this particular job.

I wouldn't use those clips, personally, I would just use decking screws from the top straight into the joists. Proper coated screws won't stain significantly, and it is bollocks about clips saving you countersinking, you won't need to with a decent cordless drill.

[The Medway Handyman]

+1

I use either Toolsatan or SF deck screws depending on what's cheaper at the time.

[Mathew Newton]

I was going down that route because I've opted to have the boards smooth si de up and so figured for aesthetic reasons a screwless finished would be pr eferable...

I must say though, I'm already making extra work for myself by virtue of th e fact I've also chosen to lay the boards diagonally (I never do things by half, but the extra effort usually pays off!) and so simply screwing them d own would obviously be much easier.

Perhaps with the right choice of deck screw the visible heads would still b e neat though...?

[newshound]

up and so figured for aesthetic reasons a screwless finished would be preferable...

fact I've also chosen to lay the boards diagonally (I never do things by half, but the extra effort usually pays off!) and so simply screwing them down would obviously be much easier.

neat though...?

The only ones I have used have been grooved one side, rippled the other. I still think I would go for screws because it's not difficult to set them just fractionally below the wood surface with a good screwdriver.

[GB]

Why just fractionally below the surface? When I did some decking, I screwed the screws so the heads were well below the surface, with the object that nobody could hurt themselves on a screw if it worked itself slightly loose. That was around 10 years ago, and it's all holding together perfectly fine.

[Mathew Newton]

Okay, 2 out of 2 suggestions for not using the clips has swayed me. As you can probably gather there was something wanting me to be steered towards conventional screwing as the clips could well have come back to haunt me.

I've used 'Deck-Tite Composite' screws before (when Screwfix used to sell them) and found they performed well and quite a subtle head on them too:

Granted that was on a groove-side-up deck but hopefully they'll be just as good against a smooth surface.

Mathew

[newshound]

Because if you go in deep it becomes a place for dirt to settle, and may tear the wood leaving splinters at the edge of the hole. I wouldn't expect a decking screw to work itself loose, but if it did I would just tweak it down a bit tighter. But in truth I don't think it matters all that much, it's just that the OP seemed particularly concerned about neat appearance.

[newshound]

probably gather there was something wanting me to be steered towards conventional screwing as the clips could well have come back to haunt me.

them) and found they performed well and quite a subtle head on them too:

good against a smooth surface.

I think I would go for a "conventional" bugle headed one on a flat board as it will pull in and create its own countersink, leaving a flush surface

[Cash]

Mathew,

I'm not a fan of decking and I wonder just how slippery 'smooth face' up would become in wet or icy weather - or even from liquid spills?

The reason for the question is that a close relative slipped on a friends rather wet, 'standard grooved-side up' decking some time ago seriously injuring.himself.

Cash

[Gib Bogle]

+1 Potentially quite dangerous

[The Medway Handyman]

Almost all decks in the USA, Canada & Australia are smooth face. Why should it be any different to a wooden floor with a liquid spill?

The 'standard grooved-side up' decking was upside down. The grooves are anti cupping grooves, not anti slip grooves - if anything they make a deck more slippery.

[The Medway Handyman]

Nope.

[Mathew Newton]

If anything, smooth side up will present a less slippery surface because di rt/algae buildup will be much reduced.

The Timber Decking Association (I bet they've had a 'guest publication' fea tured on Have I Got News For You!) say there is no evidence to suggest that groove side up provides any grippier a surface. If anything, grooving appe ars to be somewhat unique to the UK by all accounts.

It's a fair point about wood being potentially slippy in general though whe n wet (and dirty), however this deck will be at the bottom of the garden an d only used in fair weather so it's not like it will be at an entry/exit us ed all year round.

[stuart noble]

Interesting. That hadn't occurred to me. Makes the boards easier to stack rather than having any benefit for the user I imagine

[The Medway Handyman]

Plus you have a greater contact area between sole & deck.

I have a lot of decking books, all American or Canadian. Most pictures show smooth side up, groove side down.

Good quality oak floorboards have similar anti cupping grooves on the underside - you wouldn't lay those that side up.

The sealing of a deck with a decking oil leaves an extra non slip component.

[The Medway Handyman]

My belief is that 'product managers' or 'marketing executives' in the DIY chains looked at deck boards from the USA & made an incorrect assumption that the grooves were anti slip.

Once the mistake was made it carried on & became accepted as the norm.

Take a look at the Home Depot site - not a groove to be seen. It the highly litigious USA.

& Composites&searchNav=true

[Cash]

Thanks for the reply Mathew, but in my long experience of timberwork, I am still rather dubious about walking/socialising on any planed timber surface that hasn't been given some sort of very good anti-slip treatment.

As an aside, that's the only 'major' job I've ever refused to do for SWMBO in some 50 years - putting down around 60 odd square yards of wooden decking covering part of the rear garden just to impress the other 'grannies' when they call around. And boy, did I have sore ears for a few weeks.

Good luck with the project though.

Cash

[The Medway Handyman]

I've built around 50 decks in the last 6 years, never heard of a slip on any of them.

The boards I use are similar to these (shown upside down). Note; they also supply smooth deck boards.