What's a reasonable charge for replacing a 24KW condensing boiler (ignoring the capital cost of the boiler)?
In the process of comparing quotes and wondering how much (on top of the price of the boiler) is a reasonble charge.
It a loft fitted boiler but with pretty good access. Replacement will involve a small amount of bricking up of existing flue hole and removal of redundant header tank & pump.
Just the roughest of ball-park figures would be nice so I know who's trying to fleece me and who's not. ;-)
I had an old cast iron boiler replaced with a new Gloworm 24hxi condensing boiler last October. This is in Hampshire - not sure if there are regional differences..
The guys were very competent. Spent a lot of time flushing the system... added a couple of bits not in the original quote for me... All in all a very good job. There were two experienced guys (ex British Gas) plus an apprentice... Total cost was just under £1600 inc vat as they also added a couple of rad thermostats. I think I could have purchased the bits for under £800 so manpower costs were about £800+ they were on site for 9 hours - so for two and a half men - hourly rate comes out to about £35 / hour.
I had to dispose of the old boiler.
I had cheaper quotes but these guys gave me a warm feeling from the start. Very professional. He took copious notes at, the initial meeting and provided a quote when he said he would.
May be not be the same job as yourself but might help.
Sounds like it. Depends on the cost of the boiler - Fitting looks like anything between £400 and £800. Perhaps yours may be on the higher side due to the loft involvement.
Had a Worcester 28CDi fitted three weeks ago. Supply and fit, in a new position that required core drill for the flue, new run of gas pipe along the outside wall and the dhw and flow/returns put through a wall to the boiler. £1400. Two men, about 6 hours work.
The message from Richard Faulkner contains these words:
Plumbers have to live but some at least seem to live quite well.
If we assume the plumbers overheads (including VAT) are covered by his markup on goods supplied we are still left with the bigger problem of working out how productive the average plumber is but is a total of 135 fully productive days (3 days a week for 45 weeks a year) totally unreasonable? One that basis £400 for one days work nets the plumber £54000 p/a with other periods/manning levels pro rata.
£54000 p/a might be small change to Andy Hall but I suspect that for most of us that is one of the reasons why such tradesmen don't get a look-in in our houses if we can possible avoid it.
You haven't said whether the existing boiler is also in the loft, or whether the bricking up is for a location somewhere else. If it's a new installation in the loft, then gas has to be provisioned and a condensate drain arranged.
Another possible aspect is if the fitter is VAT registered and therefore is charging you VAT on the labour content as well as passing it on for the boiler.
If the boiler is costing around £950 inc VAT (Discounted Heating price) then there's £1300 in labour and margin on the boiler. If that includes VAT then a comparable price for a non-registered fitter would be around £2k.
Even taking these into account, this does strike me as a bit on the high side.
However, pricing depends on area of the country, competition and the extent to which the work is wanted.
A fitter with a good reputation in a more affluent area may well be able to command a higher price than one with less work.
Really the thing to do is to obtain a few apples for apples quotes and decide on your buying criteria - i.e. whether you just want the cheapest price or whether you feel more confident of the quality of the work of someone charging more and are willing to pay for that.
I wouldn't regard this kind of figure as small change for anybody, Roger. OTOH, I don't think that it's unreasonable for a fitter to earn this kind of money if he is able to do so.
There are other factors to consider as well. For example, some experience long term health issues with knees and back etc. How is that addressed? Either money can be put away on the basis of retiring from this level of earnings relatively early (perhaps 55-60) or income replacement insurance can be arranged. However, that is very expensive if covering a near equivalent level of earnings.
I don't begrudge anybody making whatever they are able to do legally, and I don't think that comparisons are that useful either. For example, I make more than my bank manager and probably less than a top barrister, but I don't have angst about that and neither does the bank manager.
Ultimately, earnings are determined by a combination of what the customer (or employer) is willing to pay and the competitive environment as well as the level and skill of work of the individual. If somebody is willing to risk more by running their own business, then I think that they are entitled to some reward for that as well.
It would be a lot better if we got over the British disease of thinking that being successful is "not quite nice", and instead looked at how we can improve our own lot rather than hoping that those of others become less.
I wouldn't pay a fitter to replace a boiler in my house either because I quite like doing plumbing work and can spend time to achieve exactly what I want. For me it's a time/cost/quality decision. Even if the fitter only wanted to charge £200 for a day's work, I would still do the job myself. However, if he feels that his available market is willing to pay him £400 then I see no reason for him not to go for that.
Which is very likely to be an incorrect assumption, even ignoring VAT.
If that is the invoice value, the govt will take VAT at 17.5%, so down to £46,000. Tax and NI will probably be about a third of the remaining, so down to £30k. That's not a particularly high salary for a person in their late 30s or early 40s, particularly if, as in many cases, it includes a notional wage paid to Mrs Plumber for answering the phone and doing the books. In fact, if they have children, they'd be well within the limits for Tax Credits.
YMMV. VAT would be the major item. Even overheads of £8000 p/a only amount to £60 per day when spread over 135 days.
Taking the starting point as one one days work fitting a £800 boiler for £1200. VAT would be approx. £180. Add overheads of £60 to give £240. £240 is only 30% of £800 which is not an impossibly high margin. £60 (overheads alone) is only 7.5%.
A bit confusing but I had intended the net above to mean net (one simplification too far) but no way would a quoted salary be net of Tax and NIC.
Wifes wages - one of the many reasons why the typical self employed can enjoy the same standard of living as their PAYE counterparts on half the (declared) income. :-) Presumably even harder to justify these days when he carries a mobile and pointless if the wife has a part time job of any consequence.
Not sure what you mean by national wage. Unless our mythical plumber is subject to higher rate tax it makes no sense to pay his wife more than her personal tax allowance even if she doesn't have another job and even if our plumber is a higher rate tax payer it is anything but a foregone conclusion that the trouble and expense of deducting and accounting for tax and NIC is worth the effort.
The free market works very well in a free market. I can choose a hairdresser, or not have my hair cut at all. Being told by the authorities that I must have a corgi fitter, but that he can charge anything he likes sound more like being over a barrel to me (but this is invariably what free marketeers mean by "free")
But if the government legislates, then the govenment has to oversee the compliance to some degree. I don't expect to pay over the odds for an MOT certificate just because demand happens to be high at the time.
Actually, the law of supply and demand works rather well with Corgis when it's not an emergency. You just explain that you're not a little old lady and that there are 359 other gas fitters in Yellow Pages.
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