Re: Wire Sizes--NEC?

[Terry]

This thread was originally about using existing aluminium heavy gauge wire for an new electric cooking rang/stove or to replace with new copper. It then got onto the subject of the cost and advantage of hiring an electrician to do the job; Hence; "George E. Cawthon" wrote in message news: [e-mail]...

Yeah, right, like any electrician charges $20/hr.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Meaning?

I wonder if this business of high charges by crafts people is something of a myth? Unfortunately it seems to be common for us to decry the workmanship and complain about the high cost. We sometimes refer to electricians as "Sparkies" for example; hopefully in friendly and admiring manner for their skills and knowledge? (And yes I've met electricians who knew less 'theory' than I did, but generally knew the local wiring codes, what was acceptable and what was not and where to get things needed which also takes time btw. For example, one neighbour of mine (in another type of trade than electrical) receives $400 for a ten hour day. (Coincidentally that's $40 per hour). He doesn't get work every day/week of the year! That revenue has to includes his time, use of his investment in and wear and tear on tools and equipment, the use of his specialized vehicle the original cost of which, used, to him, was around $50,000! It must cover operating cost, licensing insurance etc. road inspections and liability insurance; miscellaneous costs including telephone and fax, wife taking messages and doing the accounting etc. Also some use of the family home for storage and deliveries. Also his costs for being safety certified along with keeping current personal qualification requirements and guild memberships. I sometimes wonder, with all those costs, how he makes a living! Yes I do my own work whenever possible; that's my life style. It allows me to live cheaper and often more simply than another neighbour who is more upwardly mobile aspiring (I doubt if he owns a hammer?). Also I have the satisfaction of 'Doing it myself'. Because I can take more time the quality can be as good as a professional who is under the gun to stay in business and produce a living. Or doing it myself I may not achieve quality or quantity as good as that of a professional; and if so I must accept that or ultimately face the fact that it will be redone or that the overall value of the repaired item is perhaps a little less. (BTW I'm not talking compromising safety standards here. Our 7 times repaired dryer is now 43 years old for example. My 25 year old son says he wants to take it another 7 years to 50 if he can; same age as his older sister btw). I can take the time to pull the nails out of used lumber or use parts of two electrical items to make one good 'safe' one; whereas it isn't worth a professional's time or reputation to do so. And if I do build something 'used' into my own premises I know exactly where it is and how it was installed. Give em a break!

[zxcvbob]

You forgot (in the USA, anyway) the taxes they pay. A self-employed tradesman pays over 15% in "self employment tax".

I don't begrudge an electrician or plumber charging $50 an hour (or whatever it is), assuming he does the job right. I have heard horror stories about people being billed $300 for an hour job done incompetently because the electrician charged a "book rate".

I have paid $300 to car repair shops for jobs that where they bill over $75 an hour (do you really think the actual mechanic gets paid half of that like he should?) and the book rate is 4 hours, and when I ask when it'll be ready it's 2 hours -- the actual job probably took 45 minutes or less. The same dealer wanted to charge me over $200 to replace the allegedly worn-out sparkplugs (2 1/2 hours by the book) when he was already changing the sparkplug wires, and most of the labor in changing the plugs is getting the wires out of the way. He was trying to charge the full book rate for both jobs without subtracting anything for all the heat shields and stuff already being off. I told him I'd change to plugs myself. When I got home I pull a couple of the plugs and they were fine -- platinum plugs with very little electrode wear and no leakage. They just wanted to make another quick $200 for an unnecessary repair. The only reason the car was in this shop is the local garages that I sort-of trust (they still charge way too much for labor) said main problem was a dealer-only thing. Some sort of computer sensor thing that only a dealer could diagnose.

When buy a house, I've had my arm twisted into hiring incompetant home inspectors whose only job was to find a couple of stupid little problems (outside faucet has a 1/2" full-flow ball valve instead of a sillcock; that's gotta be replaced!) and collect a check. If there actually was a big problem, I suspect he was instructed not to find it because it might break the deal. One of them supposedly had an electrician do a load analysis of my 60A service and said it was adequate. I did the calculations myself and the minimum service woulda been something like

78A, but someone probably told him that the 60A needed to pass to sell the house. When selling a house, I didn't have to pay the incompetant inspector but I had to deal with his stupid little problems.

I've been pretty lucky and have only had good luck with plumbers and electricians. I've *never* had a good experience with a home inspector (so I pretty much disregard their report and I inspect everything myself.) And I have not gotten a good deal from an auto mechanic in over 10 years, so I do as much of my own repairs as possible.

Bob