Re: Build your own waterfall?

[Martin Pentreath]

Hi folks...

> > I hope I am asking this in the right group... :) > > I am thinking of putting in a waterfall in my garden. Maybe more a > cascading stream than waterfall. > My intention is to have a head of about 1m with a fairly rapid drop > into a smallish pond. > > I have two options: Buy a precast one or build my own. > Precast are rather costly for what you get and don't always look the > part. > Building your own - a challenge. Not one that I am afraid of though. > (Obviously not informed :) > > My idea on building one is to build a steel framed box about 1m high > with a random taper ff each side. > Then to cover this with chicken wire and bend to shape. Once happy, I > can cover with some mortar and rocks. > As for the parts that will get wet, I thought of covering the concrete > with fibreglass and a layer of pebbles on top to hide the obvious. > The width of the water section will be around 500mm. > > Does this sound do-able? Anyone tried this and had problems? Any > better ideas? > > To get a preformed one will cost around =A3350 and not be exactly what I > want. My option looks like it'll come well below that. And more so, be > what I want. > > Thanks for any tips / ideas. > > Regards, > Crispin

I don't have an answer, but I'm taking the liberty of cross-posting to uk.d-i-y for you, because they love this sort of thing ;-)

[Matty F]

Why not get a large block of polystyrene foam? Lighter and cheaper than steel, and it won't go rusty. Hack into the shape you want and cover with chicken wire and cement.

[crispin.proctor]

Martin: Thanks - I had thought of that but thought here might be a better option. I'll watch that one as well.. Matt: Nice idea. Thanks. Much easier to form and if I don't like the shape it's easier / cheaper to start again :)

[robgraham]

[robgraham]

Oops hit the wrong button !

The polystyrene block might be a good idea bu the cement coating idea is a no-no and I don't know what to offer as an alternative other than fibre glass.. The cement will leach into the water and add minerals which algae will thrive on. I suppose it is possible to seal the cement, but a 1 m high wall of cement will look pretty unnatural and I suspect if it is sealed nothing will grow on it to blend it in.

Rob

[sm_jamieson]

To make it look good you need real rocks (from a local quarry or landscape gardening place. Build a big waterproof tray (or a preformed unit) and arrange the whole thing in it ! Must be strong enough for the big rocks. Or you can get a sheet of rock cut, and use this as an "edge" for the cascade. If pumping from a pond, don't underestimate the amount of water "absorbed" by the waterfall constuction. When the pump is off all the water will be in the pond, and the pond can almost run dry when the pump is started if not large enough. There are pond-building websites / books with rules of thumb for all this. Simon.

[crispin.proctor]

Thanks guys....

The concrete was to be used to strength with the fibreglass over it. However, with the second option, I could just put the fibreglass. Not sure about the weight though.. I suspect I might still need something under it for strength.

As for the waterfall absorbing the water, I have been thinking about this. Another issue is, ultimately, I want a little stream to a second pond (where the pump will actually be). This will obviously mean a lot more water is needed before it starts recycling. Waterfall needs filling, the stream needs filling etc. The bottom pond will be deep (for volume) but have shallow / rocky sides so you won't see the water level drop drastically.

To aggravate the situation, I don't intend running the pump all the time. This means I cannot "get it started and top it up".

Maybe I am being to ambitious :)

[PK]

To make it look good you need real rocks (from a local quarry or landscape gardening place. Build a big waterproof tray

Build a set of recessed steps into the bank, line with butyl, sit big rocks on the steps, arrange small rocks and scree to hide the liner.

some numbers on water flow here:

[Rod]

Have a third "pond" - actually a covered tank of some sort. A small weir from the second pond to the third.

So you pump from the third pond to the top. When that water gets to the second pond any excess over what fills that pond goes over the weir into the third pond. By being covered you don't notice the level of the third pond at all and that of the second remains static.

You will also need to have a means by which the third pond can lose excess water when there is heavy rain.

(I used to have a house which had a single visible pond and a waterfall down a cliff-like face. This had a hidden second pond. The arrangement didn't work properly as the concrete was porous and had cracked, but the idea was fine. The hidden pond was very popular with frogs...)

[sm_jamieson]

This waterproofing this is a big issue. We had a nice waterfall feature ruined by a tear in the liner somewhere underneath the rocks ! Simon.

[Rod]

I sort of forgave this - it had been done by an Italian prisoner of war during or just after WW2. Earthquakes had probably caused the worst of the cracks - not far from Bishops Castle.

[Adam Aglionby]

here:

> pk

Unfortunately Mr Dyers CD rom seems to be no longer available but his site gives some ideas on what can be done, if your an artist, and some examples of what you won`t want to be seeing.......

wants to be built in what Mr Dyer calls a waterproof bag, the liner goes below all the rock work which is mortared on to it, using landscape fabric to protect it. Liner should be well above maximum water level all round and even be part of the same piece that lines the pond or at least with a major overlap. All the flaps and edges of the liner are hidden by rock work and planting. Pick your ricks carefully.

Water should enter the fall at a few points , not just one hose at the top, he has a great example where the final fall into the pond is flowing a lot more water than the small stream apparently feeding it.

Pond itself should be dug so that the bottom of edging stones are Below the level of the water, then the liner comes up the back of the stones and is tucked under the turf. Intial edge of pond should be a beach, with very slight slope covered in gravel and shingle, impression should be of the edging stones `floating` in the water when pond is full and beach allows for certain amount of level drop, importantly the liner is never left showing.

HTH Adam

[crispin.proctor]

You have all been most helpful!

I've been thinking about this on my lunchtime stroll to the shops.

I think I will build a box the rough height and width I want out of bricks. This allows me to fill the box with logs. A space to be used by critters at some point I hope.

I can then shape around this with concrete. Once the rough shape is done, I can put down some of the underlay, some thick liner (I found

1mm rubber one) and then another layer of underlay, then finally more concrete to hold the rocks in place. Enough [real] rocks and pebbles and you will not see the main structure.

What about concrete cracking? Would the fact that the liner is between two sheets of underlay resist tearing? Small cracks I would imagine would survive. Greater than 1mm I have a bigger problem. :(

This will be the waterfall as well as the cascading stream down to pond 1. I can then have little stream to pond 2. Finally, I like the idea of the 3rd pond. Very neat. It'll have to be >= pipe volume + Stream volume + Waterfall volume.

Thanks for the links and info. Plenty reading for me to do :)

In my mind's eye, I can see this clearly. Now to implement this! Anyone got any spare time? I have many spare beers (Well, not spare but willing to share) and lots of food. I'll provide everything, you provide help / expertise :)

Cheers, Crispin

[sm_jamieson]

here:

> pk

We used a cheap liner (PVC) and regretted it ever since. Butyl stretches so it is less likely to rupture when pulled tight over a stone. Simon.

[crispin.proctor]

here:

> > pk

Thanks Simon - will remember that.

[Adam Aglionby]

Sounds good

Whoa, logs will rot out , natural log pile somewhere mebbe but not supporting a waterfall.

Dont want no stinking concrete, compacted soil and bricks are just fine.

Geotextile or landscape fabric is what your after,stops root invasion into the liner, not frost protection fleece which is a lot thinner, under the liner. Use sand as well to form shapes and iron out creases.

Liner is matter of budget, polythene wont last more than a season dont bother. PVC is pretty good on the price/performance ratio but isnt very stretchy,creases rather than moulds, and isnt very patchable if it needs repair. Synthetic rubbers like Firestone is pretty good. Butyl rubber comes in various grades , some butyl rubbers dont have very much butyl in them, it stretches, is repairable and lasts for ever, it costs as you would imagine. One of many:

then finally more

Look at the pictures on Paul Dyer`s site , lots of flat rocks that will stack, not random shaped rocks that end up looking like a pit bing. Natural stone paving slabs break up nicely for things like this and the rustic edging stones. Again geotextile where you need it to stop rocks puncturing liner and just enough sandy mortar mix to hold the rocks in place , concrete is for motorway bridges.

Dont use concrete ;-) Underlay is always a good idea, geotextile not old carpet it rots. Make sure your liner is well supported in firm soil with a layer of sand and underlay and it wont tear unless you put a fork through it.

Concrete ponds almost traditionally leak and are often coated in G4 to kill the porosity

evil to use though as its moisture curing dont want to spray it.

Easy solution don`t use cement for sealing ;-)

Remember to put plumbing and wiring in for lighting before you start mortaring things into place....

Adam

[sm_jamieson]

here:

> > > pk

Oh yes, and fix with a bicycle puncture repair kit ! Good luck, Simon.

[Adam Aglionby]

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Try

rock used to be a major Victorian curiosity, nothing like a grotto for getting one up on the Jones`s on the next estate. Americans are givng it a new lease of life try searching on Faux Rock places like:

[Adam Aglionby]

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Pulhamite was the stuff was trying to remember:

the OP came across this basic instructable:

watched prop builders turn unpromising blocks of poly into perfect replica sphinxes and things , the building part is a skill that you can learn, the abilty to turn it into what you can envision is a talent that you cannae.

There was a touring replica of some French show caves built from polystyrene a few years ago.

Adam