Re: Bit of a Con Really - Follow-up ...

I'd be most surprised if all but the very smallest station with only one camera made mistakes like this.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)
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There is no such standard as D6500. One standard, the one used for most video for the color of white, is D65. D65 specifies NOTHING about the spectrum, only the x,y coordinates of the COLOR of light. It happens to be approximately 6504K. The term D6500 is slang and sloppy use that confuses the issues of colorimetry and coordinated color temperature.

There are other standards for the color of white that are used for purposes other than video. Some specific purposes in film and cinema, as well as in video use other standards, but for the most part D65 is accepted as the color of white for modern video. The truth is that virtually no consumer displays come out of the box set anywhere near D65, nor producing correct color for any color, including white. What you see in showrooms and when you take a set out of the box is likely a color temp for white that is nearly twice what it should be.

Leonard

Reply to
Leonard Caillouet

You have not looked at many modern displays carefully. Many, actually most of the better sets, have these controls in the user menus now. Some even have color management that goes far beyond gray scale and let you adjust the colorimetry (and perhaps luma) of the primaries and secondaries. Most professional calibrations these days never involve going into a service menu.

Leonard

Reply to
Leonard Caillouet

While this is true, it would be virtually impossible to get all colors right with some arbitrary color backlight. You could get a subset right and get all the others completely wrong.

Leonard

Reply to
Leonard Caillouet

This is not a simple subject. I have Mees' "The Reproduction of Color" (which is, what, 40+ years old?) and it's tough sledding. I had less trouble with integral calculus.

Reply to
William Sommerwerck

You would be very surprised.

Leonard

Reply to
Leonard Caillouet

What I was implying was that you could reproduce a wider range of colors if the primaries weren't as close to the center of the chart. Radial movement represents changes in saturation -- dilution with white.

As for not knowing accurate color reproduction when you see it... What sorts of preferences does the average viewer have? If you don't have the original for comparison, it can be difficult to judge.

I never considered myself an expert in color reproduction, but your comments have encouraged me to dig out Mees and give him another try. (I'm not promising anything.)

Reply to
William Sommerwerck

My Pioneer does, but heck if I'm touching them without instrumentation.

The pioneer has six adustments, for RGB and CMY.

Reply to
William Sommerwerck

If you look at the first season of "Barney Miller", you'll see poor camera convergence, and slight color shifts between the cameras. And this was in the 1970s, and at ABC's studios.

Reply to
William Sommerwerck

Most modern consumers have been conditioned to higher and higher color temps for white and over saturated color over the last thirty years or so. Manufacturers realized years ago that in the first few seconds of viewing, where most impressions are made in showrooms, the impression is dominated by contrast and color saturation. This has nothing to do with perceiving color naturally, but everything to do with marketing and competing with a wall of other sets. It is not uncommon for displays to be sold with factory settings that have color temps in the 13000K range, completely crushed blacks and whites, and far to saturated color. Many consumers like this more VIVID look. Others prefer to see a more accurate reproduction of the product as it was produced, and more realistic portrayal of color. This requires substantial changes from OOB settings for most consumer displays, at least in the USA.

Leonard

Reply to
Leonard Caillouet

I would agree. The ability of most consumers to do more than make a mess is very unlikely. Even someone like myself, having calibrated displays for 30 years, can't do much to align a color management system without a GOOD meter. I can get gray scale improved, but not really accurate.

Most sets now have RGB gains and cuts for gray scale in the user menu. Some have far more available.

Leonard

Reply to
Leonard Caillouet

Look at the early shows of Star Trek: The Next Generation. They were lit and photgraphed as if they were films. There are many scenes where there is action in the shadows.

You would have seen what was happening if you were watching it on film, on TV it was just a grayish blur.

If I remember correctly, they were shot on film.

Geoff.

Reply to
Geoffrey S. Mendelson

You will be pleased to hear that my Pioneer is set to PURE, with all the controls at their default settings (except for a bit of Sharpness goosing). The image is just plain gaw-juss.

I considered having a $350 calibration performed, but decided that I wasn't going to pay that much for a technician who knows even less about colorimetry than I to perform. The Pioneers are supposedly nearly correct out of the box.

If you want a demo disk, get the Blu-ray of "The Searchers". I don't care for the movie, but the VistaVision photography is jaw-dropping. "Amadeus" and "2001" are almost as good. With the best material, you sometimes think you're looking through a sheet of glass at the thing itself.

Reply to
William Sommerwerck

I don't understand what you're talking about. "Barney Miller" was videotape, "ST TNG" was film.

Regardless of whether tape or film is used, the cinematographer is likely to light the scenes according to what the thinks the average TV is able to reproduce.

Reply to
William Sommerwerck

Does anyone make cheap-but-good instrumentation? I could justify a $500 investment.

(I can hear you laughing now.)

Reply to
William Sommerwerck

That was my point. They lit (and photographed it) as if it were going to be shown in theaters and not on TV.

Geoff.

Reply to
Geoffrey S. Mendelson

Perhaps standards are higher in the UK, then.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

There are lots of calibration techs out there that know little more than how to point a probe at the set and adjust gray scale. There are a few dozen, perhaps, that really understand what it takes to make an accurate display. I suggest you look at the list at ISF Forum. The couple of hundred members who subscribe there are among the best in the world, and all but a handful of the elite calibration pros are found there.

Leonard

Reply to
Leonard Caillouet

Your memory is incorrect, in this case.

Leonard

Reply to
Leonard Caillouet

The cheapest I would even consider for most current displays is the i1 Pro. None of the tristimulus colorimeters will be able to measure the narrow spectrum of many modern displays, nor likely match the filters in wider spectrum lighted systems. Even the i1 pro is marginal for the LED and Laser sets, from what I understand. Better meters will be many thousands of dollars.

The best pricing that you will find is packaged with the CalMAN software. It is also one of the few software packages that is versatile enough to do just about everything that you might need with most meters.

Leonard

Reply to
Leonard Caillouet

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