[Possibly OT] Landlord's question

We have a rental property which is managed by an agent.
Latest missive says that, due to recent legislation:
(1) We have to fit suitable smoke and CO alarms (smoke upstairs and downstairs).
(2) We have to have an annual check for risk of legionnaires disease.
The cost isn't high but I thought I would check that this is a real set of new legislation and not just a small money spinner.
Cheers
Dave R
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On 02/12/15 06:58, David wrote:

Rings a bell. You're a good landlord aren't you :)
I *think* CO may only be needed if you have gas/solid fuel appliances.
Aico do quite a nice set of 10 year LiIon radio linked alarms. I *beleive* these are approved to meet this legislation. Cost more, but the fitting is trivial.
Have a look at the Aico site:
http://www.aico.co.uk/
There's a landlord's section that should clear up your obligations.

Not heard of that one!

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The latter one I know is the case in some countries, but not sure about here. Places like tanks, air conditioning systems and shower heaeds. Brian
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Smoke alarms are now required on all floors of any rented property; CO alarms are only required if there's a solid fuel appliance.
I had a landlord's gas certificate done a few months ago, and was 'surprised' to find on my bill that the plumbers had installed two CO alarms in the property (which has no solid fuel) without so much as a by your leave.
I queried it, and predictably was advised that it was 'the law' now and they were just keeping me within it. I in turn advised them that (a) it was NOT 'the law'; (b) it would NOT be the law even in October when the legislation was due to change; and (c) WTF were they thinking of, not asking me first anyway (I do anything maintenance except gas work myself). They offered to go round and remove the alarms, but obviously that was a non-starter - how would that look to my tenants? Scheisters.
(BTW I was actually intending to install one CO alarm imminently anyway, but that Wasn't The Point...!)
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On 02/12/2015 19:15, Lobster wrote:

I hope you didn't pay for them, I would have said you can remove them provided you make good the holes/decoration, otherwise they stay FOC.
Peter
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+1
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On Wednesday, 2 December 2015 06:58:34 UTC, David WE Roberts (Google) wrot e:

Highly sensible even if not specifically required.

No you don't, you have to do a risk assessment.
http://www.rics.org/uk/news/news-insight/news/hse-legionella-testing/
There is a legal duty for landlords to assess and control the risk of expos ure to legionella bacteria, but Health and Safety law does not require land lords to produce or obtain, nor does HSE recognise, a 'Legionnaires testing certificate'. http://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/myth-busting/2015/case357-consultants-letting-ag ents-exposure-to-legionella.htm
Normally there is no reason why the landlord should not carry out this risk assessment himself/herself so long as they are competent. Usually there wi ll be no need to employ a consultant. The assessment should be a straight f orward simple exercise in ordinary domestic premises. http://www.rla.org.uk/landlord/guides/legionnaires_disease.shtml
links from the HSE page should be sufficient for you to do your own assessm ent.
Owain
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On Wednesday, 2 December 2015 08:11:37 UTC, snipped-for-privacy@gowanhill.com wrote:

ote:

CO only required if solid fuel in use

osure to legionella bacteria, but Health and Safety law does not require la ndlords to produce or obtain, nor does HSE recognise, a 'Legionnaires testi ng certificate'.

agents-exposure-to-legionella.htm

sk assessment himself/herself so long as they are competent. Usually there will be no need to employ a consultant. The assessment should be a straight forward simple exercise in ordinary domestic premises.

sment.

wot e said
What he didn't say is that letting agents are a fool's choice.
NT
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Smoke alarms are legal requirement as from 1st October this year. CO detector are required if there are solid fuel burning appliances.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/464717/150929_SC_Explan_book_Annex_A_LandlordsTenants_REVISED.pdf
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ARW scribbled

Do you have any idea why isn't it a requirement for a CO detector to be installed when there are gas burning appliances?
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No.
Is it because no-one ever dies from CO poisoning from a gas burning appliance?
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No, some have died.
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On 02/12/2015 20:36, ARW wrote:

That's untrue. ROSPA say there are 50 CO accidental deaths per year, but they don't break that down by cause.
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I think it's because all/most modern gas applicances do/should vent their wastes to the outside not into the room they are in. Obvs a gas cooker doesn't do that.
jgh
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Rhetorical question????
Corgi and Gas Safe fitters have never killed anyone due to shit work on a gas burning appliance!
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On 02/12/2015 21:53, ARW wrote:

For some reason, the irony totally went past me last night. Are solid fuel fireplaces subject to any sort of checks, like the gas certificates landlords get every year?

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It happens:-)

Good question.
Not that I know of - others of course may know better.
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On Wednesday, December 2, 2015 at 9:53:28 PM UTC, ARW wrote:

t

Sure they have, but nowhere near as many as have been killed by the applian ces installed by charlatans pretending to be qualified. These fall into rou ghly two groups, rogues with experience but no understanding, diligence or conscience and builders (usually extension builders) who try solve the problem of how to build the extension without relocating the boiler and its flue.
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ARW scribbled

You're right. With only half a dozen dead in a 'good' year, we've got nothing to worry about.
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On 03/12/2015 07:00, Jonno wrote:

You don't do irony do you? ;-)
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