We have a rental property which is managed by an agent.
Latest missive says that, due to recent legislation:
(1) We have to fit suitable smoke and CO alarms (smoke upstairs and downstairs).
(2) We have to have an annual check for risk of legionnaires disease.
The cost isn't high but I thought I would check that this is a real set of new legislation and not just a small money spinner.
Cheers
Dave R
Rings a bell. You're a good landlord aren't you :)
I *think* CO may only be needed if you have gas/solid fuel appliances.
Aico do quite a nice set of 10 year LiIon radio linked alarms. I
*beleive* these are approved to meet this legislation. Cost more, but the fitting is trivial.Have a look at the Aico site:
There's a landlord's section that should clear up your obligations.
Not heard of that one!
On Wednesday, 2 December 2015 06:58:34 UTC, David WE Roberts (Google) wrot e:
Highly sensible even if not specifically required.
No you don't, you have to do a risk assessment.
There is a legal duty for landlords to assess and control the risk of expos ure to legionella bacteria, but Health and Safety law does not require land lords to produce or obtain, nor does HSE recognise, a 'Legionnaires testing certificate'.
Normally there is no reason why the landlord should not carry out this risk assessment himself/herself so long as they are competent. Usually there wi ll be no need to employ a consultant. The assessment should be a straight f orward simple exercise in ordinary domestic premises.
links from the HSE page should be sufficient for you to do your own assessm ent.
Owain
CO only required if solid fuel in use
osure to legionella bacteria, but Health and Safety law does not require la ndlords to produce or obtain, nor does HSE recognise, a 'Legionnaires testi ng certificate'.
sk assessment himself/herself so long as they are competent. Usually there will be no need to employ a consultant. The assessment should be a straight forward simple exercise in ordinary domestic premises.
wot e said
What he didn't say is that letting agents are a fool's choice.
NT
The latter one I know is the case in some countries, but not sure about here. Places like tanks, air conditioning systems and shower heaeds. Brian
Smoke alarms are legal requirement as from 1st October this year. CO detector are required if there are solid fuel burning appliances.
On 02 Dec 2015, Tim Watts grunted:
Smoke alarms are now required on all floors of any rented property; CO alarms are only required if there's a solid fuel appliance.
I had a landlord's gas certificate done a few months ago, and was 'surprised' to find on my bill that the plumbers had installed two CO alarms in the property (which has no solid fuel) without so much as a by your leave.
I queried it, and predictably was advised that it was 'the law' now and they were just keeping me within it. I in turn advised them that (a) it was NOT 'the law'; (b) it would NOT be the law even in October when the legislation was due to change; and (c) WTF were they thinking of, not asking me first anyway (I do anything maintenance except gas work myself). They offered to go round and remove the alarms, but obviously that was a non-starter - how would that look to my tenants? Scheisters.
(BTW I was actually intending to install one CO alarm imminently anyway, but that Wasn't The Point...!)
ARW scribbled
Do you have any idea why isn't it a requirement for a CO detector to be installed when there are gas burning appliances?
No.
Is it because no-one ever dies from CO poisoning from a gas burning appliance?
That's untrue. ROSPA say there are 50 CO accidental deaths per year, but they don't break that down by cause.
I think it's because all/most modern gas applicances do/should vent their wastes to the outside not into the room they are in. Obvs a gas cooker doesn't do that.
jgh
Probably because there is already a requirement for annual inspection and certification of all gas appliances anyway, and part of that inspection will test for CO leakage.
CO production from solid fuel appliances is easy enough to test for, but very hard to extrapolate that test result forward since there are so many variables at play. So continuous monitoring makes more sense.
Rhetorical question????
Corgi and Gas Safe fitters have never killed anyone due to shit work on a gas burning appliance!
In a government guidance booklet the following wordy-bollox are used:
"9. Does a carbon monoxide alarm need to be installed in rooms with gas or oil appliances?
No. Carbon monoxide alarms will only be required in rooms containing a solid fuel burning appliance (i.e. rooms containing an open fire, log burning stove, etc.). However, as gas appliances can emit carbon monoxide, we would expect and encourage reputable landlords to ensure that working carbon monoxide alarms are installed in rooms with these."
Still not clear why not.
I hope you didn't pay for them, I would have said you can remove them provided you make good the holes/decoration, otherwise they stay FOC.
Peter
Just about got gassed years ago, flat upstairs had gas fitters in , they wanted toc check the flue in our flat for some reason.
Came in pulled out gas fire , had a poke at it , said just going to van, came back with a pile of `do not use` red stickers and some tape.
Cracked heat exchanger apparently, wouldn`t have been liable to survive the winter , lucky escape.
CO detsctor , dosen`t sound expensive.
ARW scribbled
You're right. With only half a dozen dead in a 'good' year, we've got nothing to worry about.
In short, cost-effectivenes. That's the same approach used by eg NICE when deciding which drugs should be paid for by the NHS or DfT when deciding road improvements. Both have to put a price on a life. So things could change with new evidence.
Others take the view that "no price is too high to save the life of a child". (Or they do when they think only some other buggers will pay.)
Devolved adm "The Office for National Statistics publishes data on the number of deaths occurring due to the toxic effect of Carbon monoxide. In 2007, there were 251 deaths due to Carbon monoxide poisoning in all buildings in England and Wales, 79 of which were unintentional, and 35 of which occurred due to exposure to gases and vapours in the home, from all fuel types. 31 of these were due to Carbon monoxide produced during uncontrolled building fires ? and arguably may have been better warned by the installation of a smoke alarm. Again, no breakdown of these numbers by fuel type is possible."
You don't do irony do you? ;-)
For some reason, the irony totally went past me last night. Are solid fuel fireplaces subject to any sort of checks, like the gas certificates landlords get every year?
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