Heating system upgrade

I am assisting with the recovery of an inherited property. The existing heating scheme was designed and installed by the (now deceased) owner in the mid 70s or early 80s.

It consists of a floor standing Potterton Diplomat with 2 water outlets one labelled DHW+Upstairs which is split to supply two separate pumps, the other labelled downstairs, with its own pump.

Timers/thermostats for upstairs and downstairs but no timer on DHW (Just a tank thermostat). And a relay box to ensure only two of the three pumps can run simultaneously. (or maybe its just to ensure upstairs and DWH don't run together)

No TRVs anywhere, obliviously.

Massive twin panel radiators (no fins) in every room, no obvious signs of corrosion on any of them (I would assume it has been regularly inhibited at least until the last 5 years or so)

The current water supply temperature from the boiler is 49C (this is clearly as designed as each pipe has a clip on thermostat with an arrow marked on the glass. The water temp is on the arrow.

The system certainly used to function as the house was always warm when visited - but I have no idea what the gas bills were.

From discussions with the owners brother he believed that large radiators at low temp was the most efficient way to run the heating.

That might well be true and it might well work if you are in the house all day but we have recently discovered that it takes 9 hours to bring the house up from 15C to 21C. (Outside temp 8-12C, the property has DG and Cavity wall insulation)

All the radiators are barely warm at the top and cold at the bottom.

So something has to be done in the short term but the house may be undergoing major upgrades in the intermediate future (Showers fitted , possibly en suite etc) but the exact detail/layout of all this is still TBD.

The new owners are considering a modern boiler, I think as much for safety reasons as any other as they don't trust this huge great lump in the kitchen not to be leaking noxious gasses, (a CO monitor has been fitted as a temporary measure) and the chances of getting anyone to service it are pretty close to zero.

So my questions are.

1) I am planning to remove all the radiators take them outside and give them a good hosing through. Would this leave sludge in the pipes and if so how can it be removed prior to fitting a new boiler. Would this be adequate or with radiators of this age should they be replaced along with the boiler?

2) Would the system described above be suitable for adding a modern boiler pretty much one for one swap with the existing (having flushed out all of the radiators and fitted TRVs) or would major changes be necessary. I have looked at the DIY WIKI and it states that with modern TRVs oversized radiators are not a problem.

3) If a modern boiler is fitted this winter are they all suitable for using with a pressurised water cylinder if that is the route taken in a year or so when other modernisation work is done? The Worcester Bosh website seems to state that their regular Greenstar boilers are compatible with gravity HW or their own Greenstore (pressurised) cylinder.

Any helpful advice appreciated.

Reply to
Chris B
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Not listed in the efficiency table I looked at. If it's a cast iron exchanger, around 65% efficient.

there's no need for one. It is required for current BR but not actually very useful.

adding those would be good

you're lucky there, keep them. Modern ones last a fraction of the time oldies do.

that's a problem in HW mode if there's a shower, HW should be 60C at least to remove legionnarire's risk

correct. It gets the most heat out of the flame.

probably largely down to a stat being set to 49C.

they just get as warm as they need to, but are capped to 49C I gather, the latter not being ideal

what's the problem with the system?

is it room sealed? I don't know the diplomat at all.

I don't believe that at all

the standard advice is to flush them all when fitting a new boiler. A decent magnetic filter & strainer should catch the crap though.

From what you've said I'm not seeing a problem with a new boiler

You've not really told us what the problem is with the system yet, other than it being slow to heat due to low stat setting.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

Assuming "barely warm" means much less than 49 degrees C the water is not circulating properly, which could be due to sludging or ineffective pump(s) or a combination of both.

Reply to
Biggles

Yes, unless the OP only checked the rads when the pump hadn't run for a while. The system needs a filter to catch the crud - it may take a fair few emptyings of it before it stops clogging.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

House unacceptably Slow to heat, kitchen space used by boiler could be better used, device has never been serviced other than by previous owner DIY. New owners worried that anyone brought in to service boiler will condemn it, as standards have no doubt changed since it was installed.

Diplomat details

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Reply to
Chris B

Yes, radiators even at the tops are not as warm as the circulating pump outlet temperature.

Reply to
Chris B

r than it being slow to heat due to low stat setting.

desludge radiator system, install magnetic/filter cleaner. Pump vanes might also be blocked with crud, clean em out. CH thermostat may need turning up .

from what you've said it sounds like the original installer was very knowle dgable, I'd very much expect it has been serviced. And a service isn't cost ly.

It's not room sealed, so no it's not ideal, but that doesn't make it illega l. I'd certainly have a CO alarm with it. A service involves clearing the h eat exchanger as necessary, the other risk factor. Also ensure cold air ven tilation is never blocked, that's necessary to avoid CO poisoning.

If the heat exchanger is cast iron, a new boiler would take the system from 65% to 90%+ efficient, lowering gas bills. But you'd gain buy/fit/repair/r eplace repeatedly costs.

2 things must not be neglected with this old fashioned type of boiler: vent ilation, and the heat exchanger being cleaned out on occasion.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

The only service this sort of boiler needs is a good clean.

I've never heard of running a system at 49C unless the boiler temperature is the only way of controlling the temperature in the house. My system, fitted in the 70s, ran the boiler at max and controlled the house temp and hot water via valves.

Changing to a modern boiler will save the cost within a few years. I worked it out as 3-4 here. But installed the new boiler myself, so no labour costs. My old one was an RS Kingfisher, so slightly more efficient than an open flue one.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

If you are doing as much flushing as you are, maybe rent something like:

Water-air mix pulsed through the pipes...

Thomas Prufer

Reply to
Thomas Prufer

You can take it all apart, hire a pulsing job etc, but probably none of it' s necessary. Just fit a filter and add some cleaner, and be prepared to eve ry the filter several times.

I'd recommend a filter with a filter mesh, not just magnet, much more effec tive. About £45 new on ebay, I forget the brand.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

Thanks to all who replied on this (and the other duplicate - Thank ES) thread. Lots of cleaning/flushing/pump investigation to do but perhaps the whole situation is not as bad as currently envisaged.

Reply to
Chris B

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