Pipe bending

I'm attempting to bend a 22mm copper pipe with a (cheap) pipe bender of the type http://tinyurl.com/b9tcqj9
The pipe is few years old but I'm getting ripples on the underside of the bend.
Bottom of bend and top of bend photos http://www.admac.myzen.co.uk/pipe/
What is likely to be the problem? Pipe? Bending tool? Operator? And is there a easy fix for future bends.
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inadequate knowledge of how to do the job
you're supposed to use one of these:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/plumbing-tools-by-rothenberger-internal-pipe-bending-spring-22mm/46276
tim
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tim..... wrote:

I'd have said you use a spring *OR* a bender rather than both, if that's what you're suggesting.
Anneal the tube first to soften it?
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On 05/10/14 12:41, tim..... wrote:

Not with a pipe bending machine you're not :)
It points to the machine being poor quality. My not-exactly-expensive bender does not wrinkle the pipe - well, not in any noticeable way...
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On 05/10/2014 13:02, Tim Watts wrote:

Ok, so in what situation should you use those internal springs, because I have seen them used by plumbers, when bending copper pipe in a pipe bending machine.
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On 05/10/14 22:34, Bob H wrote:

The same plumbers that daub sealant or PTFE tape over compression olives by any chance?
Bending springs are used when hand bending tube - a knee for 15mm or smaller or a block of wood with a smooth hole in for larger.
also handy for bending PVC conduit.
Springs are totally unnecessary for any reasonable bending machine.
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On 05/10/2014 22:34, Bob H wrote:

Certainly not with a bending machine! Bending springs can be perhaps thought of as a poor man's bending machine. They were far more popular (and worked much better) with the softer thicker walled pipe of years ago.
The old FAQ entry sums them up pretty well:
http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/humour.html#pipebend
Bending springs are still viable for fully annealed microbore pipe (although often they are external springs). The also work fine with thick walled 20mm plastic electrical conduit.
They will just about work on modern pipe, but IME its really not worth the effort, and you waste far more pipe which at today's prices makes the pipe bender a cheap option.

That does not make it "right". It could be the plumber was contending with a poor quality or badly worn machine, and that was one way of getting better quality bends with it.
I find my Hilmor GLM bender will do perfectly smooth bends in both 15 and 22mm by itself. Adding a spring would just be a waste of time.
(also worth noting its very difficult to use an internal spring into a pipe cut with a pipe slice - the slight reduction in diameter makes it hard to get the spring in and out even before bending the pipe).
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On 05/10/2014 12:41, tim..... wrote:

You are having a laugh I take it? (or just enjoy watching someone rip their knee caps off!)
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On 05/10/2014 12:41, tim..... wrote:

You took the words out of my mouth! My thoughts , exactly!
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On 05/10/2014 12:41, tim..... wrote:

The pipe bender used is, IMHO, much better than an internal spring. That is the style I have always used at work. Sometimes used a spring at home and extracting the spring can be difficult.
The problem is probably hardened pipe. Try annealing the pipe over all the area to be bent (heat to red hot and then allow to cool naturally before attempting to bend).
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On 05/10/2014 22:48, Old Codger wrote:

I have always found it easy enough to get bending springs out if you have the end with the ring accessible. Rotate clockwise and it gets smaller and pulls out easily. Fairly easily. Well, not too difficult. But I have not used springs very much...
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On 05/10/2014 23:02, polygonum wrote:

As long as you don't get a crease/kink in the pipe.
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On 05/10/2014 22:48, Old Codger wrote:

+1. Also worth lubricating the pipe contact points as others have said.
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On Sun, 5 Oct 2014 12:41:03 +0100, tim..... wrote:

Have you tried to bend 22 mm pipe with an internal spring? Might work with soft copper but not the normal half hard stuff.
Or you suggesting putting the spring in then using the bender? Getting the spring out might be fun.
As for the OP. Lightly grease/lubricate all parts that touch the tube to be bent. Make sure that the tube is fully seated into the groove on the tool. Use the seperate bar part, groove to the pipe, between the tools roller and tube.
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Are you sure it's 22mm pipe, and not 3/4"?
Try annealing the copper along the area of the bend first. It may have work-hardened over time in storage, particularly if it has been subject to vibration.
To anneal copper, heat it up with a blowlamp (or over a gas stove burner), and then let it cool (no need to quench it).
And to follow-up the other answer, no you do not put a bending spring inside when using a proper pipe bender.
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On 05/10/2014 12:28, alan_m wrote:

Update - poor quality of tool. Temporarily I've tightened the the bolt that holds most of the tool together as much as I dare to remove some/most of the slop and I wedged in a nail between the half moon and frame to stop it from moving.
The alignment between pieces of tool still leaves room for improvement.
I've now done a perfect 90 degree bend on the same pipe without it rippling.
Sods law says I cannot find my tin of washers which would fit the screw holding the assembly together and a few weeks ago I had a clear-out and chucked some metal pieces which would have been ideal as a shim behind the half moon piece.
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alan_m wrote

Is the copper pipe moving/slipping when you bend it ? Pull the bend in one move, not a series of jerks.
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Or like a friend did, filly it with sand first!
Brian
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On 05/10/2014 12:28, alan_m wrote:

Sloppy or worn pipe bender by the looks of it.
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On 05/10/2014 19:01, John Rumm wrote:

Yep, a bit of DIY modification and it works OK. A thin washer removed all of the slop and a metal shim made from two disposable knife blades glued to the former piece (and then ground to remove sharp edges) ensured that it actually fitted more squarely/closely into its mate.
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