PC and monitor standby power?

A neighbour has a new-this-year UK-assembled generic Windows 7 PC, and a decade-old flat-screen non-CRT Philips monitor from Denmark.
Nocturnally, these are turned off by closing Windows and by pressing the little button on the lower front of the monitor.
What power, in watts, is each of these two devices each likely to be drawing during the night?
--
SL

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On Tue, 08 Dec 2015 06:35:42 -0800, dr.s.lartius wrote:

If he's closing Windows, then he's switching the PC off. There'll be a small draw, but it really will be absolutely minimal.
Have a google for the monitor - the 8yo 24" Samsung flat on my desk is reputedly <0.5w on standby.
Call it a watt for the pair. So 1,000hrs from 1kWh or, at 15p/kWh, about 2.5 days per penny.
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On Tuesday, 8 December 2015 14:47:39 UTC, Adrian wrote:

(1) Initial false assumption. (2) It is that draw which I wish to know; I do not want its significance evaluated.

(3) I asked "during the night" - but you have quoted the daytime rate.
Can anyone give actual answers (and no more) to the actual question?
--
SL

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On 09/12/15 09:51, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

No, since there is insufficient information.
1/. "these are turned off by closing Windows and by pressing the little button on the lower front of the monitor" does not actually tell anyone what the actual state of the PC is.
2/. What a PC draws in ANY state it's in (apart from completely disconnected from the mains) is absolutely a function of the actual PC. Which you didn't specify.
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On 09/12/2015 09:51, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

No. The question as posed is impossible to answer since it depends critically on the exact model of PSU in the generic PC and potentially on certain BIOS settings (ie keeping the memory active in suspend mode).
Likewise the model number and version could be used to find the LCD display manufacturers claimed power consumption in standby.
The only way to find out for sure is to *measure* it on the actual kit.
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Martin Brown
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On 09/12/15 10:13, Martin Brown wrote:

And in fact measuring very very low duty cycle current into very low power switched mode PSUs, is in itself a highly suspect enterprise.
(The modern tendency is to have two switched mode PSUS - one that runs the 'standby' power unit, and which switches on the main switched mode PSU when the start button is pressed).
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On 09/12/2015 10:19, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Indeed although it will probably give a good indication if the thing is drawing an outrageous standby power. Some older TVs are ~20W by default. This makes a standby powersaving switcher (~£4) worthwhile.
Most well designed kit these days is well under 0.5W on standby.

Cheap and nasty ones tend to be around 4W continuous and some of the PC sound boxes are not actually powered off even when switched off!
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Not with the information given. If you wish to know exactly, you'd need to give make and model numbers. And hope someone has details. Or Google for their instruction books, which may just give standby power consumption.
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*Many hamsters only blink one eye at a time *

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com writes

Actual, as in what does that actual setup draw, no, for the reasons already given.
But for the PC and monitor given, it's likely to be 'not a lot' to worry about.
FWIW,
For this PC here, the important guts of which (PSU and mobo) - are probably about 5 yo. The monitor is a no-name LCD about 8 yo.
On standby (as in with the PC asleep', rather than turned off) it the combo draws 5W. With windows shutdown it draws <1W
The speakers however draw about 10W when left turned on, so the whole kit and caboodle is on one of those standby switch things that powers off the rest of the kit when the PC goes into standby/off
--
Chris French


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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

A typical rate, as additional information. Did you tell us anything about your neighbour's supply tariff?
Chris
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Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
snipped-for-privacy@cdixon.me.uk
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On Wednesday, 9 December 2015 12:58:35 UTC, Chris J Dixon wrote:

I did not; I was asking about the power in watts, not the cost. To get the true cost, one must remember that the dissipation in question is a humble contribution to the room heating
To answer other respondents :
Amitech MM Lite PC 1851, Philips monitor type unknown. Windows 7 is in the "Turn off" state at night.
Speakers - good thought. I don't recall exactly where the "manual" for that pair is, but I do know where that for a replacement pair should be - no such information supplied on sealed retail purchase - Creative A60 2.0.
Some respondents wrote about buying a digital wattmeter - surely not the type of advice for news:uk-d-i-y, since one can make a digital wattmeter from the sort of electronic components that became available a generation or more ago.
I used "likely" to indicate that I just wanted approximate probable figures.
--
SL

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On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:31:43 -0800, dr.s.lartius wrote:

It's common practice amongst the manufacturers of active PC speakers to fit the on/off switch on the low voltage secondary side of the mains transformer. This leaves the transformer losses (hysteresis in the core and some I squared R loss in the primary due to magnetisation current) still drawing power off the mains supply which can be dismayingly high (4 watts or so in my case with a decently sized "Target" TRG-S320 stereo PC speaker pair).
I've been replacing the 'innards' of my desktop PC's ATX PSU, every 4 or 5 years as they wear out, with 'innards' cannibalised from new ATX PSU's simply to retain the mains isolator switch and the 'Aux' monitor power socket which it also controls just so I can shut off these parasitic loads after the OS shuts the PC down (a total of 8 to 10 watts worth).
Refurbishing, rather than replacing, the PSU also saves me having to 're- customise' the ventilation grille-work which most ATX PSUs typically compromise the efficacy of the PSU cooling fan as the sole means of adequate cooling for a well ventilated Desktop tower case housing a sub-150W peak demand PC system (I have a very quiet desktop PC that keeps its cool - in more ways than one :-).

Human or technology 'generations'? :-)
Most DIYers think it's sufficient to buy their tools 'ready made' rather than design and build their own DMMs or digital watt meters, especially when it's likely to cost more just to buy the parts than to buy a suitable 'off-the-shelf' ready made test meter (£9.99 in the case of the N67FU I recommended as suitable to making such measurements). You're talking about "Extreme DIY", a branch of the hobby that most contributors here would regard as a completely OTT approach to the gentle art of DIY. :-)

Well, apart from my overlooking a potentially significant PC Speaker load, I gave you exactly the sort of answer you were looking for. I'm feeling a little 'affronted' that you failed to thank me by name. :-(
:-)
--
Johnny B Good

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On Thursday, 17 December 2015 16:23:51 UTC, Johnny B Good wrote:

e
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Human.

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Agreed. The components in question must have cost well over £9.99 in the money of those days, let alone the auxiliary equipment. But the accuracy greatly exceeded that of the N67FU. But maybe I can get an N67FU using so meone else's shoe-leather.
--
SL

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On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 15:43:43 -0800, dr.s.lartius wrote:

And, then some! Inflation alone would make it the equivilent of £100 in the early to mid 80s but it would likely have cost five to ten times more again simply because the electronic components were so relatively costly at that early stage of the game.

Such extreme accuracy (better than a tenth of a watt) would simply be wasted in such an application as this. I can be confident that, unlike the 'affordable' sub ten quid 'energy monitors being sold by Aldi (the infamous DEM1379) and a similar unit from "Machine Mart" a decade or so ago which could show anything from zero to 20 watts on a 10 watt router or cable modem load, the N67FU *does* correctly read[1] to within a tenth of a watt, even on sub 2 watt smpsu wallwart loads since the readings correlate to within a tenth of a watt as best as I can interpolate the 2 watt graduations on the mirror backed 100W scale of my trusty Metrawatt analogue watt meter[2] when using a jeweler's loupe. Trust me on this, I have the means to cross check without reliance on potentially suspect electronic reference measuring kit. :-)
[1] After my disappointing experiences with cheap 'digital watt meters' (which tarred all such 'affordable' digital energy monitors for the next decade afaiwc), I was flabbergasted at the unexpected accuracy of this energy monitor (aka digital watt meter) as I was, likewise with its slightly more expensive cousin, the 2000MU-UK (an anglicised "Kill-A- Watt" for those of the American persuasion). For once, it made a pleasant change that the 2 or 3 quid each that I spent in my local flea market *wasn't* a total and utter waste.
[2] I bought this rather nice watt meter at a radio ham rally nearly thirty years ago. The 35 quid asking price almost put me off (I couldn't haggle the trader down) but I knew I was looking at something almost unique in the world of electrical measuring instruments so I 'squandered' my 35 quid without too much 'soul searching'.
I knew such watt meters were pretty scarce but only discovered, after googling for more info on this meter just a few years back, that they are in fact, as rare as "rocking horse shit"(tm).
Gone at last, were the days when I could only guess at the power consumption of various electrical and electronic mains powered 'appliances'. However at that time, I didn't realise just how useful a diagnostic aid it was going to become in the art of diagnosing and repairing desktop and laptop computers when I eventually quit my 'day job' to build, sell and repair PCs 'full time'.
--
Johnny B Good

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On 08/12/15 14:35, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Even a 5 year old Philips allegedly draws less than half a watt on standby.
I'd expect it to be similar on a PC PSU.
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On 08/12/2015 14:48, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The monitor is probably well behaved but is of an era when the backlight probably wastes a fair bit f power when in use.

It is a lot more variable than that. Some maintain the memory power by default depending on BIOS settings and the worst offender by far can be the amplifier for the 5+1 loudspeakers! One of mine draws the same power on or off and merely illuminates a blue LED in addition when "on".
Worst PC I have seen recently about 4W best <0.1W. If there is any doubt then one of the socket strips that slaves all peripherals to the PC is the way to go. That is what I do for my errant amplifier.
It is worth measuring standby power of things left in standby a lot. Some older flat screen TVs are particularly bad by default.
Most modern stuff is much better with 0.2W being typical.
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Martin Brown
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On Tuesday, 8 December 2015 17:24:42 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:

I've emasured two CRT iMac from about 2001 they were between 2-4 watts on shutdown, this is I believe due to the IEC filtering socket not being as efficient as it should/could be. Sleeping was 30 watts ! My G4 tower was 5 watts on shutdown.

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On 09/12/2015 11:22, whisky-dave wrote:

> this is I believe due to the IEC filtering socket not being as efficient as it > should/could be. Sleeping was 30 watts !
I doubt that the mains filter could ever be that inefficient.

~5W is typical of maintaining the ram contents for a quick start.
Although some cheap and nasty PSUs are that bad at maintaining power for the on/off switch logic I wouldn't expect to see one in an Apple.
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Martin Brown
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On Wednesday, 9 December 2015 11:36:05 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:

There's more than just the main filter in a sleeping imac. The screen while blank is active and them memeory and a lot of the other components werre active when in sleep mode.

it is what it was/is.
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On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 06:35:42 -0800 (PST) snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

If you are really interested in this for many devices, an energy meter can be purchased from the likes of CPC for about £10 or so. Than you c an check every device in the house!
Here's one they are offering now, mine was less than £8. http://cpc.farnell.com/brennenstuhl/1506603/primera-line-wattagecurrent-met er/dp/PL13403?ost=energy+monitor&selectedCategoryId=&categoryIdp000 0009695
--
Davey.


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