?Outstalling? a CH boiler

[Dave Plowman (News]

[John Rumm]

Installing any thermal appliance tends to come under part L of the building regs these days in much the same was as changing a thermal element (i.e. rebuilding a bit of wall, of adding DG, or changing insulation levels), or installing a hot water cylinder or adding a new circuit etc. So in that sense, while not a non issue, its not really a show stopper. Building control departments have a limited window of opportunity to take enforcement action, and its typically something they only do when they need to protect the public from a particularly dangerous situation, not for lack of appropriate paperwork. A competently installed boiler is not even something they would have visibility of.

Insurance - might be worth checking your policy, but I have not seen anything that bars claims for DIY related failures in any of mine.

IME the few DIYers who are prepared to do gas work are usually very well up on the requirements and have the skills. Some may work with a tame registered installer to do the final testing and sign off.

Can't see it makes any difference at all.

Same as installing IMHO.

[John Rumm]

While one can apply Dunning Kruger to many situations, I get the impression that when it comes to gas work, joe public is mostly of the opinion that they are not "allowed to do gas". It generally requires a much deeper level of understanding to identify the nuance there, and know when that rule of thumb might not be valid.

Not sure there is really an "event" here...

[Dave Plowman (News]

Not so. I think you might find it hard to find a boiler suitable for installing outside. So any form of building that shields it from the weather etc could do a lot of damage if it blew up.

[Martin Brown]

Perhaps, but since they won't pay out it is somewhat irrelevant.

Shockwaves from an explosion can still do a lot of damage. Neighbours will also have a valid claim against anyone whose boiler explodes.

Headed for a Darwin award usually unless they really do know what they are doing (in which case they could install it properly).

You will only find out when your "safe" gas installation fails and your insurer's loss adjusters laugh in your face. It happened near me and what was left of the house afterwards remained as charred and blackened warning for would be gas DIYers for many years afterwards.

Telephone kiosks used to explode with monotonous regularity in the good old days. Gas leaks found their way into telecoms ducts and sparks from the old pulse dialing mechanism would eventually provide the spark. It was particularly bad after the conversion to natural gas which was drier than towns gas started causing the joint seals to contract.

[Tim+]

Clearly you?ve not understood my question at all. Feel free to cease ?contributing?.

Tim

[Robin]

You are entitled to think that. But it's not what you said.

And while you don't see that it makes any difference if work requires a building notice or self-certification I do. E.g. if someone is thinking of selling a property then it might make good sense - if it were possible without much extra cost - to avoid the cost of a building notice or the cost/bother of inspection/insurance when the buyer finds there's no completion certificate. So I don't see that it's necessarily a silly question.

[Theo]

However, if you were to ?outstall? a boiler, I.e. fit it either on the outside of your property or even in a detached outhouse/ventilated bunker </quote>

Dave is answering the part of your question about installing a boiler outside. It's common with oil boilers but I've never seen a gas boiler designed to be installed outside. If it's not designed for it, the installer is not installing according to the manufacturer's instructions which would be a building control fail.

In any kind of structure there's still the risk of gas buildup if improperly installed. I don't know how much ventilation would mitigate that. You could do the calculations and ask the BCO to do a risk assessment I suppose. But I doubt it would get you off the hook as far as building regs goes.

Theo

[John Rumm]

There is actually a resonable range of boilers designed for external installation. They include their own enclosure and don't need another building round them. Worceter do some, as do Grant, Rianni.

e.g.

[Tim+]

Externally fitted gas boilers are actually very common in some countries. I saw lots in NZ.

Hardly beyond the wit of man to design a lightweight well ventilated weather-proof enclosure that would avoid the build up of any gas if required.

Tim

[Dave Plowman (News]

Since you are obviously an expert on all things boilers, why the question in the first place?

[Theo]

Of course. But you're trying to do this without building control. The point being that you can do whatever you like, but it's up to you to show BCO that it's suitable. Anything that's 'special' is likely to require the sort of one-off scrutiny you're trying to avoid.

A bit like how you /can/ install your own consumer unit, but you need to get that signed off by the BCO to confirm it's up to scratch. Alternatively there exists a competent persons scheme of people who do it day-in day-out and can sign off their own work - this is often cheaper than BCO signoff and is designed to handle the large volume of run-of-the-mill installs more efficiently than getting a BCO out each time.

Theo

[Dave Plowman (News]

How would that compare, cost wise, against paying a pro to install a conventional boiler indoors?

[John Rumm]

The external boilers seem to be a bit more expensive than the internal ones. For example checking one oil model of the WB shows it is about £200 more for the external one.

If paying for installation, there might arguably be a little bit less work doing an external one (no flue hole to core drill) assuming there is already an adequate base in place for it to be sited on.

I guess the main attraction would be less space lost in a kitchen, and less noise.

[T i m]

<snip>

A disadvantage could be any heat lost from the boiler itself, especially in the winter, if there was no need to heat the outbuilding (other than for it's own frost protection)?

The only heating my Mum has in her kitchen is the boiler and the oven / stove if on and the flow / return pipes 'passing though' [1]. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[1] And the fridge freezer?

[Fredxx]

Most boiler casings are internally in contact with outside air at outside temperature. If sited in a kitchen they likely become a sink of kitchen warmth.

I've not felt the need to heat kitchens unless they're a kitchen-diner.

[Andrew]

Boilers do not explode. Gas leaking into a compartment and reaching the percentage that can explode, might, if a source of ignition happens.

[Dave Plowman (News]

You don't make the early morning cuppa, then? ;-)

[DJC]

In the case of oil boilers less smell

[John Rumm]

With a modern condenser there is very little heat lost from the boiler itself (at least on gas ones anyway). You would be hard pushed on mine to find any bit of it more than just slightly warm to the touch.

Old conventional boilers would leak sever hundred watt into the room.

Whatever its motor power consumption is.